Illness/Sickness: White slimy coating: The Australian summer

Maldark

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Liz
I recently got my Girlfriend an Axolotl for christmas (Max). Since we purchased him last Saturday he's refused to eat any food (Beef heat, as recommended by the pet shop). And I'm starting to get worried, it appears there's a slight slimy whitish coating on parts of Max which seem to indicate heat stress (I've been furiously searching this site for the last couple of hours).

I live on the eastern coast of Australia and was wondering if I need a method of temperature controling the tank. This is the first Axolotl i've had, but I do have experience keeping fish. The water has good PH and quality and I've been doing a 20-30% change twice a week. The tank was up and running for a week before we got Max to buildup some good bacteria.

I'd be devistated if my Girlfriends first Axolotl were to die in such a short period of time, I wish I could upload some photos but she has the camera and isn't home currently.

There seems to be a few Aussie gurus around, any special advice you could provide for keeping axolotls in harsh Australian summers would be greatly appreciated.
 
How about some water parameters? Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, PH, and temp for starters. If you haven't been to the axolotl.org site, see the link below. There is a lot of information already compiled and easy to find. It will help you ensure you are meeting the basic needs of your axolotl.

http://www.axolotl.org/

Here's another link to some more articles... there is one on the list for cooling methods

http://caudata.org/cc/articles/articles.shtml
 
Last edited:
Hi and welcome!
I'll start off by saying that axolotls are very different to fish - I did so much research before I got my tank, and my partner and I set up a cichlid tank and a guppy tank at the same time. All tanks were cycled before we got any animals, and the cichlid tank has had no dramas. Everybody is happy and full and nobody argues. The guppies don't care about anything. My axolotl tank is currently at 29 degrees with one lonely little guppy occupying the space. One of my axolotls has died and the other one is not happy.

I'm sure you know all about ammonia and nitrite and such, but it's especially important with axolotls - it's really toxic, even more so in higher temperatures. You should be fine with your water changes, but I think it is recommended to do partial water changes daily until the tank is cycled - just keep an eye on the water parameters and make sure ammonia and nitrite stay at 0. If you find you're getting readings for them, maybe up your changes to once a day.

Here is some literature for you to bury your nose into :)
As geosheets said, www.axolotl.org has lots of basic information on everything axolotl.
Info on cycling, though you probably already know all this stuff if you keep fish - http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cyclingEDK.shtml
The axolotl care page - http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_mexicanum.shtml

As for food, beef heart is ok as an occasional treat but axolotls don't digest it well so it's not great as a staple. Earthworms are the best if you have access to a pesticide-free garden or a bait shop. If your new friend is still small, you may have to chop the worms into smaller pieces so he can manage them. Bloodworms (live or frozen) are good too, although they are messy and require some skill to feed neatly. The only live food I can find in Brisbane are earthworms and baby guppies that I'm breeding. Axolotl pellets are also good if you can get him to eat them. My little guy stopped eating for a while, and I made a concoction suggested by Darkmaverick and it's been happily snapped up (although I make a massive mess with it)

Darkmaverick said:
I personally feed sick axolotls a 'miracle mash'. What i do is to use a food processor and blend the following (or a combination) - fresh shrimp, bits of fish fillet (avoid white fish), beef heart, even earthworms, and moistened axolotl pellets. I would then roll this dough into pea-sized portions before offering. I find that the mash is commonly accepted by axolotls because firstly, it is easily ingested (small enough) and digested, has nutrition due to the composition of the mash, is easily prepared and stored in the fridge, and its generally quite palatable due to the smells associated with the ingredients.

You can buy a marinara mix from the supermarket that has lots of goodness in it - I blended that with pellets and beef heart, although I did remove a bit of the white fish from the mix. Mine won't eat unless I wave it right in front of his nose - feeding tongs from the pet store are good for this.

Here are other food ideas
Food ideas - http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/foods.shtml

Another thing to note is that pet stores tend to be misinformed when it comes to axolotls. Check out the housing page on www.axolotl.org and make sure everything is good. They will usually recommend gravel, which Max will eat - this could lead to impaction (which can lead to death). A barebottom tank or clean sand are the best substrates. They will also become stressed by stupid little things - water flow, temperature, light, tank mates. You probably already know to pick up their waste and uneaten food every day - A turkey baster makes this a lot easier. It's important to make sure you don't let waste accumulate, especially when it's hotter and your tank isn't cycled.

Now for cooling.
Here's a page on different cooling methods.
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cooling.shtml

A chiller is obviously the best method, but it's also the most costly. You can try rotating water bottles - make sure you read the instructions on that page and do it properly though, as fluctuating temperatures can be even worse than having the tank hot. This works for most people, but I find I'm never there to change them on time and I don't have enough room in my freezer for a million bottles. To make this method work even better, you can insulate the outside of your tank with styrofoam or something (get a hold of one of those boxes they use to transport fish to fish shops and cut the sides out to wrap around your tank). This makes the frozen bottle method more effective.

Fans blowing across the surface can also make a significant difference as well I think.

However, I've given up. I invested in a chiller and am still trying to make it work. As an emergency measure, Jacq suggested I use an esky and Kaysie helped me figure out how to make it work.

I've got an esky half full of dechlorinated water (I just like to dechlorinate everything). In the esky, I've got a large container full of water, and a smaller container full of water floating inside the larger one. The axie lives in this smaller container. The bigger container helps to buffer the temperature change, keeping it gradual.

I originally had ice in there (no room in the freezer for ice bottles at xmas) but now I rotate frozen bottles. You need 2 bottles - one in the esky and one in the freezer. Once a day I swap them, using the old bottled water to change 100% of the axie water (because it was in the esky with him, it's the same temperature). Using a 1L bottle, the temp in his container drops down to around 14 degrees and it takes 24 hours to creep up to around 18 degrees. I also keep a bottle in the fridge and put that one in the esky with the frozen bottle - if they're both frozen the water gets too cold, and I need another bottle to fill his container. If it's getting warmer and I'm going out, I'll swap one of the bottles with another frigded bottle, just in case. This doesn't drop the temperature, it just keeps it cold.

This method doesn't allow you to watch your axie play, and kind of sucks. But it's keeping him happy and healthy until I figure out a more permanent solution, or until the weather cools down. If he were in the tank he wouldn't be playing anyway, he would be boiled to death. Try using the search function of these forums to find other posts on cooling and heat stress - there will be millions.

Sorry about the essay, but I hope that was helpful! Good luck, Aussie summers aren't kind to axolotls but once you've got it all sorted out they're so adorable to watch.
 
The whitish slime you are referring to could be perfectly normal. Axolotls have something called a slime coat. This helps to protect their skin. I sometimes notice whitish jelly-like lumps stuck to my tank ornaments where my axolotl has brushed against them and rubbed off some slime.

Your tank can take weeks to cycle. A week wouldn't be enough to really start any sort of good bacteria unless you were boosting the water with water from another cycled tank.

He's probably still stressed from the move hence he isn't eating, give him some time to recover. They can go for weeks without eating a thing. I know this from experience. Have a good read up of the links the other members have provided for you, it will help.
Keep us posted....good luck!
 
Neke: Thankyou for the essay, the more info the better. Changing frozen bottles or fidging an axolotl sounds like a lot of hard work to keep the alive. Why do out pet stores sell them if they're so hard to keep? and why don't they tell us about these things before we buy one.

I desperatly need to get a thermomtor for my tank, I'll be purchasing that later today along with an ammonia/nitrate testing kit, I'll switch to daily changes and see if it helps.

If I can manage I'll go and get some worms from the baitshop too. It's really disheatening when Max won't eat he'll follow the food with his nose and sit with his mouth right against it, just dosn't gulp it down like he should.

I've used rather large river stones as the base for the tank along with some blue glass stones for colour. This makes it easy for the discarded foor to be caught in the base, maybe I should fill in the gaps with sand.

I think I may look into purchasing a chiller second hand, if I can get a good price it'll be well worth it from what I've read on these forums.

I've read that they dislike moving water, this seems to be the opposite for Max, there's an airstone at the back of the tank and he seems quite content to just sit in the bubbles for most of the day, is this weird?
 
<<QUOTE>>Changing frozen bottles or fidging an axolotl sounds like a lot of hard work to keep the alive. Why do out pet stores sell them if they're so hard to keep? and why don't they tell us about these things before we buy one.<<END QUOTE>>

They sell them for money. They sell them because there is a demand for them from people who don't mind the extra effort for their pet. And they don't tell some folks this stuff because petshop owners are frequently ignorant, don't care, and/or don't know any better. AND its an excellent way to get second point sales. i.e. chillers, special filters, etc.

As for your substrate - it sounds fine. But adding sand and using the stones as accents is nice too. Thats how my second axolotl tank is. A couple of pieces of slate and several large river rocks here and there with naja grass planted behind them.

It is curious that your guy likes the bubbles but I've heard that before. All of mine do their best to avoid the current from the filters in their tanks.

But it sounds like you're doing your darndest to make this work so good on you and good luck! Oh another easy tip on keeping a tank at lower temps is an air driven pump for the filter, a large tank, and keeping the tank an inner room, away from exterior walls or as far away and out of direct sunlight as possible. I use all of those tips here in Arizona. LOL makes tank placement a pain in the behind but they're worth it!

Sharon
 
I've read that they dislike moving water, this seems to be the opposite for Max, there's an airstone at the back of the tank and he seems quite content to just sit in the bubbles for most of the day, is this weird?

The water flow issued from a filter's outtake is a lot more powerful than the gentle bubbles from an airstone.

Some axolotls like airstones and will happily sit in the bubbles all day, some however find it very stressful.
 
Some good news and some bad news.

I got a thermometre, and ammonia and nitrite test kits.

The ammonia was at 1.5-2ppm and the nitrite was at zero. I replaced some water and i'm waiting for it to settle before I retest and examine the temperature.

Is this level of ammonia the likley cause of Max's stress?

I've also purchased some meal worms to see if he'll eat something different.
 
Some good news and some bad news.

I got a thermometre, and ammonia and nitrite test kits.

The ammonia was at 1.5-2ppm and the nitrite was at zero. I replaced some water and i'm waiting for it to settle before I retest and examine the temperature.

Is this level of ammonia the likley cause of Max's stress?

I've also purchased some meal worms to see if he'll eat something different.

I would guess yes... 2ppm is pretty toxic for most aquatic life. 3ppm will kill even hardy fish. I'm new to axolotl's myself but the first thing I would do is remove your axie until you get the ammonia levels in the tank down. No sense leaving him in toxic water while you work on this problem. He'll be fine in a tub of dechlorinated tap water for up to a day. If you keep him in it over a day, do 100% water changes on the tub or he'll be back in the same situation. You may have to make several partial water changes to get the ammonia in the tank down. It doesn't sound like your tank is cycled yet. There is a lot of info at the links above regarding cycling and water parameters.
 
I'm thinking the best solution would be to tub and fridge the little guy until the tank settles down. I'll do this later today.

What's the best way to handle the axolotl into the tub for refidgeration? and what's the best way to do full water changes once a day without causing him too much stress? Would gravity feeding out the water with a hose then pouring the replacement water in gently around him be fine?

I'd never really dealt with cycling until I found this site, my other fish fair fine, but the tank has been setup fulltime for a number of years now. I'll read up to make sure I do it properly, it seems that's my major problem atm.

The other problem is the water temp is 24C and it's a particularly mild summer day, maybe I'll have to fork out for a chiller soon.

Thanks again for all your advice so far, it's been very helpful.
 
I'm thinking the best solution would be to tub and fridge the little guy until the tank settles down. I'll do this later today.

That's good. Keep in mind that the tank also needs a supply of ammonia(waste) to cycle so be sure to put him back in once you get the ammonia to zero. The tank is probably going to require large daily water changes until it gets through the cycling process(typically 6-8 weeks). After that you can go with smaller weekly or twice weekly water changes.
 
What's the best way to handle the axolotl into the tub for refidgeration? and what's the best way to do full water changes once a day without causing him too much stress? Would gravity feeding out the water with a hose then pouring the replacement water in gently around him be fine?

I'd never really dealt with cycling until I found this site, my other fish fair fine, but the tank has been setup fulltime for a number of years now. I'll read up to make sure I do it properly, it seems that's my major problem atm.

The other problem is the water temp is 24C and it's a particularly mild summer day, maybe I'll have to fork out for a chiller soon.

Thanks again for all your advice so far, it's been very helpful.

How big is your axie? Netting him out or pouring off his tub water and let him slip into a new tub of water is how I would probably go about it. Handling him is not suggested. If you keep him in the fridge, keep a jug of water in there also for water changes. You don't want to shock him with drastic temp changes. I think that 24C is right at their peak threshold. Once you get the tank water under control, your 20-30% changes will probably be sufficient until it cycles but you may need to do them daily. Just watch that ammonia level.
 
Hi, this is Liz, Maldark's girlfriend and owner of Max. I just got home to find out that he's not doing so well which has me quite upset, however i can't thank all of you enough for your advice. I just tried the meal worms that my boyfriend bought and they worked wonders!! He ate it straight away! I figured because he hasn't eaten in a while, i'd feed him another which also went down fast. I was wondering how many i should feed him at meal times? I don't want to cause any more problems by over/under feeding him.

Also, with the transfering Max into a container to put in the fridge, on further inspection, the only containers we have are the size of 2L icecream containers which im not sure are big enough. He is around 20cm long. Theres a lunch box just a little longer, enough to perhaps fit him length ways but not much room to swim. Would this do more harm than good? I just want him out of the toxic water asap.

Thanks again for all your help.
 
im having the same problem
i got mine just today
did yours move around much when you got yours???
koz mine have stayed in one spot for a while
 
When he first got in the tank, it looked like he was trying to get out, swimming into the glass. Then for a day or two he didn't do much, then when i did my first water change he went nuts, lol. I woke up to him swimming all over the tank, up to the top and diving down, floating in bubbles. He's the most active axelotle i've seen. Even now, that hes not too well, he'll still swim around. I expected him to stay pretty still actually. Perhaps the experts can give you more advice.
 
Hi, this is Liz, Maldark's girlfriend and owner of Max. I just got home to find out that he's not doing so well which has me quite upset, however i can't thank all of you enough for your advice. I just tried the meal worms that my boyfriend bought and they worked wonders!! He ate it straight away! I figured because he hasn't eaten in a while, i'd feed him another which also went down fast. I was wondering how many i should feed him at meal times? I don't want to cause any more problems by over/under feeding him.

Hi Liz,

Mealworms should only ever be fed to an axolotl as an occastional treat, they're not suitable as a staple diet as they are not very nutritious, very fatty, and are hard to digest due to their hard shell.

Are you decapitating the mealworms? Mealworms have strong mandibles capable of tearing through an axolotl's internals.

Neke has posted an article on appropriate foods for an axolotl, earthworms are by far the best food to offer as they have all the nutrition an axie needs in one wriggling package. If you are reluctant to feed live food, axolotl pellets are an acceptable staple as well. Pellets designed for salmon and trout are acceptable if you cannot get hold of axolotl pellets.

Also, with the transfering Max into a container to put in the fridge, on further inspection, the only containers we have are the size of 2L icecream containers which im not sure are big enough. He is around 20cm long. Theres a lunch box just a little longer, enough to perhaps fit him length ways but not much room to swim. Would this do more harm than good? I just want him out of the toxic water asap.

The container just needs to be long enough so the axolotl can stretch to their full length and be completely imersed in water. No swimming space is required.

Every day you will need to do a full water change. The fridge should be set for at least 5 degrees celcius, try not to let it get colder than this. Keep some bottles of dechlorinated water in the fridge to keep the temperature constant when doing water changes.

The fridge slows the metabolism down, the axolotl will not be inclined to eat while in the fridge. Try offering food each day however, and remove anyting not eaten within a few hours so the food does not foul up the water. Earthworms however can live for a day or so underwater, these can be left with the axolotl, but must be removed if dead and not consumed.
 
Hi Maldark,

Its fantastic your axolotl is feeding well. It is a positive sign. However, rather than feeding mealworms as a staple, i would recommend earthworms and bloodworms instead. Axolotls have evolved to be able to assimiliate the nutrients most effectively from them. They would be obtaining the best nutrition. I normally feed my axolotls as much as they can consume in 5 minutes in one sitting. The amount of food they consume is determined also by the water temperature and their health, so there is some variability.

Fridging your axolotl would render it less likely to feed as much. However, i have tried feeding a mash (which i roll into pea sized balls) with much success. I think Neke has roughly mentioned how i prepare the mash. So far, every 'fridged' axie i ever fed this mash readily accept it, even over tasty earthworms. It is more digestible under cold temperature.

The receptable to hold your axie in just has to allow the axolotl to be submerged and allow its body to spread out normally (not twisted or bent into uncomfy positions).

Cheers
 
Changing frozen bottles or fidging an axolotl sounds like a lot of hard work to keep them alive. Why do out pet stores sell them if they're so hard to keep? and why don't they tell us about these things before we buy one.
They sell them because they are the most awesome pets ever! :D And they don't tell you everything because they don't know everything, especially in larger pet stores where there are so many animals to take care of. They know a little about everything, instead of a lot about something in particular. Or to look at it from a pessimistic angle, the more animals you kill, the more you will buy from them. You're not going to spend so much money on a set up, buy the animal, have it die and then forget about it. You will go back and buy another. Having said that though, my favourite LFS doesn't keep axolotls anymore - I asked them why when I was in having a cry about my chiller, and the guy laughed and said it was because it was too hot to look after them properly. So at least some people still care, instead of just stocking up and offloading them to anybody who will bite.

Changing the frozen bottles can be annoying, but not time consuming. You would usually only fridge your axolotl if it were sick in some way, or if failing to fridge it could cause sickness (ie. when it's too hot), so it's not a regular thing to have to pay them so much attention every day. Once you have everything set up and working they don't require much effort at all - if you see any waste in the tank when you walk past, suck it up with a turkey baster. Throw in some food a few times a week. Spend 10 minutes once a week changing some of the water. That's it! It's setting everything up and getting it working that is the hard part.

Even with my axolotl living in an esky, it only takes me 10 minutes a day to take him out, feed him, change 100% of his water and put him back in with a new ice bottle. Much less work than any other pet. And if you can manage to sort your tank out so it's in a cool part of the house with a filter that doesn't emit heat and a fan blowing across the surface, you might not have to worry about the temp for more than 1 or 2 months a year.
 
Update:

Max is now in the fridge, in a large container (I just couldn't bare to see him not having the space to swim freely) and he seems to be doing well. His gills are no longer curled which was the main indicator of stress. He's not eating but that is to be expected.

There are two issues left that I must deal with.

1. Reducing the ammonia levels in his tank. I know the cycling process can take many weeks as I've read in all the links you have sent me, however I've have come across mixed instructions as to whether I should be doing partial water changes. Some say change the water to lower the levels, others say leave it to let the bacteria build up. Any clarification would be appreciated.

2. I have noticed max has a small ball of somthing hanging off his gills. It is reddish in appearance and just seems like food that has gotton caught. I originally dismissed it as this because it didn't look like any fungus' I have seen in this forum. Also, it had fallen off after he moved a certain way. However, when I changed his water just now, i noticed it is there again, yet he hasn't eaten. The only food that has been in with him in the fridge is one meal worm which wasn't eaten, and an earthworm, also uneaten. Is this a fungus I am unaware of, or could it be faeces that has become caught?

Thankyou so much for your time and effort. Myself, my boyfriend and Max are all greatful.:happy:

Liz
 
Hi Liz,

1. If you do not have any animals in the tank, you do not have to change the water - this is called "fishless cycling" and not changing the water will indeed speed up the process. If you have axolotls in the tank, you need to change at least 20% of the water every day to keep the ammonia levels down to non-toxic levels while the tank is cycling.

2. Sounds odd to me, too - could it be blood? Can you get a picture of it for us?

Good luck to all three of you,


-Eva
 
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