Axolotl chronic fungal infections or bacteria?

ricagudino

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My axolotl's name is Yolia, she is 4 years old, 12 inches, and this year has not been her year...

I moved at the beginning of the year, and that's when all the problems started, I never had an issue before. The move was traumatic for her, her travel bag was too small and she bumped her nose. I was misinformed about fridging and didn't check the temperature of my fridge, thinking it was ok to keep her there overnight while I set up the tank in the new place. I was also misinformed about where to put the tank, and I put her tank close to a bright window. I noticed weird behaviour, she seemed agitated (now I know that is because of sun exposure & temperatures), and in February I noticed what seemed like sperm plugs coming from her bits. Which is weird because she was definitely identified as female. She got her first fungal infection on her gills in May when the temperature in my zone went up drastically. I moved her tank to a darker place and did a series of salt and tea baths, but because I panicked and over cleaned her tank, the parameters crashed and I had to cycle it. I live in Toronto, and we can't access pure ammonia, so I used seachem stability and a trio of minnows as directed by my local aquatics store. Because of high summer temps in my area, I had to fridge her, and this time I adjusted my fridge temperatures to no less than 50 Fahrenheit (following an axolotl breeders advice) and she spent 6 weeks in the fridge. She was fine all the rest of summer once back in her tank, no abnormal behaviour and eating/pooping patterns were back to normal. I kept her cool with ice bottles and water changes (although on hotter days water changes don't help because tap temps are higher), and I didn't let her tank temp get higher than 72. I did notice since the parameter crash that nitrates (NO3) have been higher than 40 ppm, so I tried to increase water changes to 40% every 3 days instead of once a week.

On September 11 she got her second fungal infection on her gills. I repeated salt baths and fridging until it fell off after three days and put her back in her tank. On September 24 she got her third fungal infection on a different gill, so I followed up with daily salt baths/fridging for another three days. During all treatments she still showed signs of an appetite but I avoided feeding her because I read fridging slows metabolism.

NOW she has her fourth fungal infection on her gill as of October 30 and the following day she had a weird white/clear poop (I'm attaching a picture). I've done so much more research and found I am not supposed to be fridging her for fungal infection, so I've tubbed her in a cool dark room in my house. I've done two salt baths so far and the fungus fell off, but this morning I put her in a fresh clean tub after the bath and she's been thrashing around and freaking me out...

I must be doing something wrong, there must be something I am unaware of, it is so clear to me she is in pain. I'm of mexikha descent and she is not just a pet but an ancestral animal, I will do whatever I can to help her, even if it's acknowledging I don't have the skill to keep her... Is this a fungal issue or does she maybe have something more serious like a bacterial infection? Last I checked, there aren't any vets near me who could help with axolotls. Please help!
 

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Move, potentially different tap water, high temperatures, fridging, salt bathes, tea bathes, re-cycling ...
That's a lot of stress. Bacterial or fungal infections are often opportunistic.

You said you put the tub in a cool dark room in your house. Why not establish the tank in this room ? Either it will be difficult to have always moderate temperatures.

Let the tank stabilize, add some sand, lots of living plants (with light of course) and youll create a more natural setup for your favorite animal
 
So much stress...
I have the tank established in the same side of the house, both rooms are dark and cool, I moved her tank after her first infection. The room I have her tub in right now is where I also keep seedling plants in the spring, and the grow lights would not be ideal for her.
Do you recommend I re-dose seachem stability? She has two big plants right now, but I could totally add some more. She used to have moss balls and I'm just realizing nitrates went up after I took them out during the first infection tank overcleaning.
Also what do you recommend for water changes? I'm doing 40% every three days right now, should I do less percentage more often?
 
I wont recommend anything about Seachelm Stability because I use no chemical at all in my aquariums and everything is fine.
I wont recommend either anything about water changes because I've low tech aquariums (with light but without filter), with very few water changes and no nitrates courtesy of a lot of living plants (Egeria densa, Ceratophyllum demersum, Lemna minor, Alternanthera reineckii, Bacopa caroliniana,...), and also some dead oak leaves. I do large water changes (about 50% when I want to trigger breeding at the end of winter.
The only thing I can recommend is plant a lot. For the moss ball, you have already the answer.
 
I wont recommend anything about Seachelm Stability because I use no chemical at all in my aquariums and everything is fine.
I wont recommend either anything about water changes because I've low tech aquariums (with light but without filter), with very few water changes and no nitrates courtesy of a lot of living plants (Egeria densa, Ceratophyllum demersum, Lemna minor, Alternanthera reineckii, Bacopa caroliniana,...), and also some dead oak leaves. I do large water changes (about 50% when I want to trigger breeding at the end of winter.
The only thing I can recommend is plant a lot. For the moss ball, you have already the answer.
Thank you so much! I'll pick up some more plants today. I stopped salt baths altogether, her fungus fell off after the first one. I'll continue tubbing and monitoring the parameters after some plant additions.
 
Thank you so much! I'll pick up some more plants today. I stopped salt baths altogether, her fungus fell off after the first one. I'll continue tubbing and monitoring the parameters after some plant additions.
Have you tried methylene blue yet?
 
Try something like that :

View attachment 90385
Beautiful! Do you have to clean up their poop? I have a 20 gallon tank, how many plants would you recommend for that size?
Also I still have her tubbed, her tail is bent, she hasn't eaten in a week and spat up the two nightcrawlers I tried to feed her. Any idea what signs to put her back in her tank?
 
Never clean the poop. In fact, I rarely see the poop since I feed mainly with earthworms and the poop is essentially earth (it dissolves in the sand within a few minutes).
The poo enriches the soil (2 inches river sand) and the plants can grow well.

As for the question of how many plants, all plants are not equal. If you could get some Egeria densa so that almost all the surface is coivered, it should work well because Egeria is a fast-growing plant which uptakes much of the ammonium and nitrate. Once they are well established, you can throw out some of the Egeria and plant other species instead. I also use hornwort.
(I've cited some plants but I don't know if they are authorised in Canada, so check this)

As for the food, I don't know what you call nightcrawlers. In an english-speaking site, they refer european nightcrawler to Eisenia hortensis and canadian nightcrawler to Lumbricus terrestris. Eisenia is not always well accepted by axolotls. Lumbricus terrestris is generally well accepted but big individuals can be a little scratchy. I suggest trying smaller worms or cut them in pieces.
(I give a majority of Allolobophora icterica, which is very well accepted, but I don't know if it is precent in Canada)
 
Never clean the poop. In fact, I rarely see the poop since I feed mainly with earthworms and the poop is essentially earth (it dissolves in the sand within a few minutes).
The poo enriches the soil (2 inches river sand) and the plants can grow well.

As for the question of how many plants, all plants are not equal. If you could get some Egeria densa so that almost all the surface is coivered, it should work well because Egeria is a fast-growing plant which uptakes much of the ammonium and nitrate. Once they are well established, you can throw out some of the Egeria and plant other species instead. I also use hornwort.
(I've cited some plants but I don't know if they are authorised in Canada, so check this)

As for the food, I don't know what you call nightcrawlers. In an english-speaking site, they refer european nightcrawler to Eisenia hortensis and canadian nightcrawler to Lumbricus terrestris. Eisenia is not always well accepted by axolotls. Lumbricus terrestris is generally well accepted but big individuals can be a little scratchy. I suggest trying smaller worms or cut them in pieces.
(I give a majority of Allolobophora icterica, which is very well accepted, but I don't know if it is precent in Canada)
Good to know! I looked it up and egeria densa is available at my local aquatic store. Interesting about the soil, I've gone with bare bottom for easier clean up but your technique seems easier. I guess it's a matter of adding the plants and letting the tank establish. Any idea how long that takes with plants alone? pH is sitting at 7.8, Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, nitrates are 30.
The nightcrawlers I'm feeding her are Lumbricus terrestris canadian nightcrawlers, she's been eating them since she was 6 inches long and now she's double the size. I wonder if red wrigglers are a better option as they are smaller. I don't know about Allolobophora icterica availability in canada...
 
Well, difficult to give a precise idea, but if you begin like this (a big load of Egeria ; there are some hornworts too but it's not an obligation), the nitrates should slow down within a week :

Xochimilco 1.JPG


After that, step by step, you'll be able to add other plants, plant some of the Egeria which have grown roots and throw out excess Egeria to let some light to the other plants.

Red wigglers have repulsive yellow secretions and not all axolotls can eat them. I doubt an axolotl which doesn't eat nightcrawlers will eat red wigglers instead. I would rather use earthworms cut in pieces.
 
Well, difficult to give a precise idea, but if you begin like this (a big load of Egeria ; there are some hornworts too but it's not an obligation), the nitrates should slow down within a week :

View attachment 90496

After that, step by step, you'll be able to add other plants, plant some of the Egeria which have grown roots and throw out excess Egeria to let some light to the other plants.

Red wigglers have repulsive yellow secretions and not all axolotls can eat them. I doubt an axolotl which doesn't eat nightcrawlers will eat red wigglers instead. I would rather use earthworms cut in pieces.
I'll start cutting up her worms!
So her tank has no light, I've kept it off her whole life. Do egeria plants need full light? I have an anubias, a java fern, a hydrophila, and an echonodorus in there right now, they were recommended for lowlight-no light tanks.
Another thing I'm curious about your set up, how do you maintain low temperatures without water changes?
Thanks for all your advice :)
 
Well, I keep them in my garage. The temperatures vary from 4°C in winter to 22°C in summer. I have 14°C now.
So no need to bother about temperature.

Egeria densa is rather tolerant regarding light but works better with a good light. The more you have light, the best the results.
I know axolotls don't like much light but good light with a lot of floating plants = low light for axolotls.
 
Well, I keep them in my garage. The temperatures vary from 4°C in winter to 22°C in summer. I have 14°C now.
So no need to bother about temperature.

Egeria densa is rather tolerant regarding light but works better with a good light. The more you have light, the best the results.
I know axolotls don't like much light but good light with a lot of floating plants = low light for axolotls.
Wild! I definitely live in a different zone, much more temperature variance.
Floating plants and lights it is, it's worth a try. As for substrate, I would need to start the tank over from scratch in order to set that up right? And you would recommend substrate over bare bottom? I'm wondering if more change to her environment will further stress..
 
Ah Ah ! Bare bottoms tend to stress axolotls because it's too smooth for them when tey walk (they cannot gripp the bottom), while substrates tend to stress hobbyists because they fear painful cleaning.
If you chose a substrate, choose a fine sand (grains 3 mm maxi) so that it can pass through the gut when axolotls swallow some. Axolotls can sort the sand and a prey (and though out the sand) but an axolotl which has always been in bare-bottom tanks will need about 1 week to learn this.
To be effective as a support for plants, a sand substrate should be about 2 inches deep.

Now, my choices are not the only possible choices. If you'd like to reproduce something like Xochimilco lake (or chinampas), see these links :


or this previous thread :
 
Ah Ah ! Bare bottoms tend to stress axolotls because it's too smooth for them when tey walk (they cannot gripp the bottom), while substrates tend to stress hobbyists because they fear painful cleaning.
If you chose a substrate, choose a fine sand (grains 3 mm maxi) so that it can pass through the gut when axolotls swallow some. Axolotls can sort the sand and a prey (and though out the sand) but an axolotl which has always been in bare-bottom tanks will need about 1 week to learn this.
To be effective as a support for plants, a sand substrate should be about 2 inches deep.

Now, my choices are not the only possible choices. If you'd like to reproduce something like Xochimilco lake (or chinampas), see these links :


or this previous thread :
I would love to honour her original habitat, the resource on the xochimilco biotope directed me down a rabbit hole... Currently looking at availability of some of the native plants.
For now egeria densa! I've put the LED lid back on the tank to assist plant growth of the four I already have in there.
And I will add substrate especially if she prefers that, it seems like a necessary component of the biotope as well. Any tips for putting in substrate for a beginner? She already has an established tank.
 
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