Illness/Sickness: Bloating? Impaction? Or organ failure?

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

Hi all, hope you can give me some advice. To get it out of the way, there aren't any exotic vets nearby that I know of much less any that specialize in herps. Litl-Lotl is our office mascot and I've been his primary caretaker for almost 4 years until I was laid off in August. He is in a 50-gallon tank with very large river rock substrate and we upgraded him from a 30-gal tank about a year ago. The guy who took over for me has forgotten more about aquariums etc than I will ever know and has been his caretaker before so I am very confident about his care while I was gone, I'm the relative newbie in the situation. I was rehired yesterday and he's not doing well, very bloated and lethargic, doesn't look good, coworker said it's been about a week and had fridged him the Thursday (I think?) before I started back so he's had about 4-5 days of cold. Fridge is at 46F degrees but can increase to 50F if the door is open very long while we are changing water. His main tank is usually at 68F. There were new plants introduced in August that brought a hatch of ramshorn snails with them, he's shared a tank with tiny pond snails a long time ago but never ramshorns. He ate the pond snails with no issues, he enjoys sharing the tank with what we jokingly call "edible friends". Water has been tested and is fine, we never do more than a 50% water change, usually 25% and do strip tests regularly to check nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, hardness etc. He was only sharing the tank with marimo moss balls before the new plants/ramshorn hatch recently. Let me know if you all need more background info.

We thought initially that he had eaten a larger ramshorn (biggest ones are about 1/4" right now) and become impacted but his belly is evenly distended with no lumps. His back legs also now show swelling. He has not pooped in a week, but then we have not fed him his usual two nightcrawlers per week either due to thinking he was impacted. The photo in the blue tub is from the big tank swap a year ago. The photo in the clear tub is from yesterday when we swapped his fridge water out. After discussion and a bunch of research online, we really both believe that this might be water retention instead of impaction (though we are in the process of removing ramshorn snails from the tank either way). His gills are tight to his head but not curled, typically they are out and moving around. His tail has had that crook in the end since a tank spike when I first was learning about tank maintenance 4 years ago. It just never went away. He seems distressed and possibly in pain but he could also just be hangry, he doesn't fast with a good attitude lol. We found Holtfreters recipe in another thread on this forum with an axie with similar symptoms and have made a batch today to start him in this afternoon. We had not considered any kind of salt bath prior because that's not the treatment for impaction.

Does anyone have anything else to help him that we can try? Recommendations? Also do you concur that it's probably not impaction and should we start feeding him his beloved worms again if he will eat them? If he's not in the mood he will definitely spit them out or just not bite at them, he has definite opinions on food that aren't subtle. Thanks for any help you can suggest!!!

Jamie

 

[axolotl nerd]

very busy at the moment so i just skimmed through this, but i have a few notes
- test strips aren't reliable, the liquid testing kit is much much better
- i think that his back end floating as well as the changes to the back legs points to constipation, possibly in conjunction with impaction

i think that edema (bloating/water retention) is possible, but i'm not sure of what it is for sure. i would continue monitoring him and keeping him tubbed. tea baths may help in the event of some stress.

 

[wolfen]

because of the leg width it is either edema or obesity, holtfreters will help sort the issue out provided it isn't caused by kidney or heart issues.
fridging won't resolve edema or obesity issues as edema is a build up of fluid caused by either osmosis or organ problems and because fridging causes a slow down of metabolism it will take longer to burn of excess fat.

 

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

because of the leg width it is either edema or obesity, holtfreters will help sort the issue out provided it isn't caused by kidney or heart issues.
fridging won't resolve edema or obesity issues as edema is a build up of fluid caused by either osmosis or organ problems and because fridging causes a slow down of metabolism it will take longer to burn of excess fat.

Thank you Wolfen. Since he has doubled in sized in a week without benefit of eating, it's definitely not obesity. I'm really hoping it isn't organ issues but I appreciate the info you gave about holtfreters and we will try that this afternoon. Why is fridging not helpful for resolving edema?

 

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

very busy at the moment so i just skimmed through this, but i have a few notes
- test strips aren't reliable, the liquid testing kit is much much better
- i think that his back end floating as well as the changes to the back legs points to constipation, possibly in conjunction with impaction

i think that edema (bloating/water retention) is possible, but i'm not sure of what it is for sure. i would continue monitoring him and keeping him tubbed. tea baths may help in the event of some stress.

Appreciate the tips axolotl nerd! We will look into getting a better testing kit. We are keeping him tubbed for now for sure.

 

[wolfen]

if the edema is caused by osmosis then cooling won't stop the absorption of water and if it is organ issues then cooling to fridge temperature can cause further damage and organ failure.

 

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

Update, came in this morning and this was extruding from his cloaca?! Anyone? The bubble seems to have blood vessels on the outside. Poor litl guy.

 

[axolotl nerd]

Update, came in this morning and this was extruding from his cloaca?! Anyone? The bubble seems to have blood vessels on the outside. Poor litl guy.

this is now an emergency situation, as that appears to be a prolapse. i understand that there aren't any exotic vets nearby, but i implore you to take him to any professional you can find immediately.
i'm not sure about his prognosis, and i'm not a vet, but it doesn't look good. i don't know if he will survive this

 

[wolfen]

that is a fluid filled prolapse of the cloaca, he needs to be seen by a vet, unfortunately because he is already suffering from edema the main option will probably be euthanasia as it will be difficult to remove the fluid build up.

 

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

Prolapsus | axolotls-cie

en.axolotls-cie.com

We truly do not have a local vet capable of dealing with more than dogs/cats and horses/cows. My aquarium expert friend will be attempting the procedure in the link above this afternoon to give him the only chance we can. If that doesn't work we've discussed the least painful method of euthanasia.

 

[wolfen]

when your axolotl is placed in the water with holfreters solution add 10g glucose per litre of water as this may reduce the bloat faster.
I've included a amphibian formulary, read under "Miscellaneous Agents Used in Amphibians" ARS solution.
ARS is similar to holfreters but stronger concentration.

 

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

when your axolotl is placed in the water with holfreters solution add 10g glucose per litre of water as this may reduce the bloat faster.
I've included a amphibian formulary, read under "Miscellaneous Agents Used in Amphibians" ARS solution.
ARS is similar to holfreters but stronger concentration.

Thank you wolfen. The holtfreters did reduce it a very small amount and the procedure of betadine and sugar water reduced it a bit more but we weren't able to get it to fully reduce and go back in completely. My expert friend has all ingredients except glucose for the ARS solution and we will have that by this afternoon. We will see how that goes. We have him tubbed in holtfreters out of the fridge for now and will keep you guys posted. Thanks for your help!

 

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

Litl-Lotl made it through the night and looks much less bloated! The prolapse is also much reduced but still has a small bit external, still clear in color. He's in a new batch of holtfreters this morning (old batch smelled super strong like he peed all night) with a bubbler at room temp same as his tank so water is about 68F. We plan to try the same betadine and sugar water process again this afternoon to see if we can get the prolapse back in all the way and hopefully then he may be able to pass the snail or whatever started this whole thing. Still haven't gotten our hands on glucose but working on that. Thanks so much for all the assistance wolfen & axolotl nerd! We'll keep you posted on his progress, and we are cautiously optimistic this morning!

 

[axolotl nerd]

Litl-Lotl made it through the night and looks much less bloated! The prolapse is also much reduced but still has a small bit external, still clear in color. He's in a new batch of holtfreters this morning (old batch smelled super strong like he peed all night) with a bubbler at room temp same as his tank so water is about 68F. We plan to try the same betadine and sugar water process again this afternoon to see if we can get the prolapse back in all the way and hopefully then he may be able to pass the snail or whatever started this whole thing. Still haven't gotten our hands on glucose but working on that. Thanks so much for all the assistance wolfen & axolotl nerd! We'll keep you posted on his progress, and we are cautiously optimistic this morning!

wonderful news! he's not out of the woods yet but it is great to hear that he's improving.
i think most of the credit goes to @wolfen in terms of assistance, as they gave you the advice that's helping litl so much
hoping for pictures of him as he gets better- and hopefully more positive updates!

 

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

Litl-Lotl made it through the night again and his prolapse is entirely back inside! Woohoo! We did the betadine/sugar water process one more time yesterday but he was room temp, not fridged this time, and it was an ENTIRELY different experience LOL so we didn't get much done there, mostly one coating of each. Way too much wriggling! There's a tiny amount (like less than a piece of confetti) of bright green something floating in the bin this morning but it's unclear which end it came out of. A weird thing is that he's got regular bubbles coming out of his gills? He does gulp water and then burp it back up out of his mouth regularly for something to do, but I've never seen multiple bubbles come out of his gills one at a time in a slow string like that. My coworker is going to pop in and check on him this weekend and I'll post back on Monday or if anything interesting happens before I leave today. Really crossing my fingers for a big poop yet today though lol!

 

[axolotl nerd]

Litl-Lotl made it through the night again and his prolapse is entirely back inside! Woohoo! We did the betadine/sugar water process one more time yesterday but he was room temp, not fridged this time, and it was an ENTIRELY different experience LOL so we didn't get much done there, mostly one coating of each. Way too much wriggling! There's a tiny amount (like less than a piece of confetti) of bright green something floating in the bin this morning but it's unclear which end it came out of. A weird thing is that he's got regular bubbles coming out of his gills? He does gulp water and then burp it back up out of his mouth regularly for something to do, but I've never seen multiple bubbles come out of his gills one at a time in a slow string like that. My coworker is going to pop in and check on him this weekend and I'll post back on Monday or if anything interesting happens before I leave today. Really crossing my fingers for a big poop yet today though lol!

absolutely wonderful news that his prolapse has been corrected!!!
i'm not sure about the bubbles coming from his gills? maybe post a photo, but i think it may just be him burping
huge congratulations on him improving

 

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

He's still with us, but still no pooping yet. His latest batch of water still smells fairly decent and hasn't yellowed as much as the last few batches of holtfreters did, they have been smelling a bit like ammonia after just 12-24 hours. We are hoping that means he's passed most of that extra fluid, he does look much more normal size-wise. I'll try to grab a pic next water change, the bubbler in the bucket makes photos tough.

 

[axolotl nerd]

He's still with us, but still no pooping yet. His latest batch of water still smells fairly decent and hasn't yellowed as much as the last few batches of holtfreters did, they have been smelling a bit like ammonia after just 12-24 hours. We are hoping that means he's passed most of that extra fluid, he does look much more normal size-wise. I'll try to grab a pic next water change, the bubbler in the bucket makes photos tough.

great news that he's still doing well and not as swollen. from the sounds of it i'd say he's releasing waste through his skin and that's why the water smells foul. i'd continue monitoring him and post updates for all of us )

 

[Litl-Lotl's Roomie]

He's still kicking! He's back to being quite bloated again though, the last 48hrs or so. We felt that he would be less stressed in his tank so we did a huge holtfreters batch in it after we cleaned the tank of all plants and snails. We'll be doing partial daily water changes still and just see how he does. He wasn't fond of the bucket for sure. Still hasn't eaten anything but there was a weird slimy thing on the sponge filter when we swapped that over. Looked like snot and was half brown and half green. No idea which end it came out of but not sure his poops would be normal or recognizable after all of this anyway. We'll see if he's interested in a worm tomorrow after he's calmed down. The pic shows his sad swollen belly and cloaca, but at least the prolapse is still resolved. I'm just amazed and grateful he's still here, my litl dude has had a rough month for sure.

 

[axolotl nerd]

He's still kicking! He's back to being quite bloated again though, the last 48hrs or so. We felt that he would be less stressed in his tank so we did a huge holtfreters batch in it after we cleaned the tank of all plants and snails. We'll be doing partial daily water changes still and just see how he does. He wasn't fond of the bucket for sure. Still hasn't eaten anything but there was a weird slimy thing on the sponge filter when we swapped that over. Looked like snot and was half brown and half green. No idea which end it came out of but not sure his poops would be normal or recognizable after all of this anyway. We'll see if he's interested in a worm tomorrow after he's calmed down. The pic shows his sad swollen belly and cloaca, but at least the prolapse is still resolved. I'm just amazed and grateful he's still here, my litl dude has had a rough month for sure.

he does seem to be improving. warm (or cold, because axolotls like that more) wishes your way!