Gills

Otterwoman

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So, if you picked up a couple frog eggs while playing in the woods and just tossed them in a tank, and they hatched and were streamlined and had gills, is it a sure bet they're some kind of salamander and not a frog?
 
None of the frogs or toads in my part of the world have tadpoles with gills...
 
Here is the remainder of the hatched out egg sac from these "tadpoles." The original sac was like the size of a softball.
 

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If they have gills they will be salamanders. Some Ambystoma lay egg masses similar to frog spawn. I won’t guess at the species. A.maculatum spawn is usually green with algae living in the jelly but it can also be milky in appearance. Got a close up of the eggs or larvae?
 
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The eggs have hatched, but I had posted one originally:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=39236
I tried to get pic of a larva today when I took other pics but they are too quick. I'll keep trying though!
My friend in the pet shop (not a typical pet shop; it's private and the owners really do know stuff! though this IS the guy who said "What do newt people know about eggs?") said that some tadpoles are born with gills but'll lose them in 24 hours, that he saw it happen. I'll get pics as soon as I can!
 
At earlier stages, frog tadpoles do indeed have external gills and as they grow further, the gills become encased by the operculum and are then hidden from view.

What you have there, though, is certainly a salamander larvae. Aside from the overall shape, another thing that differs between newly hatched tadpoles and salamander larvae is that the larvae have stabilizers, which tadpoles lack. These stabilizers are like tiny little rods that stick out, one from each side below where the gills attach and unlike the gills (which usually point roughly upwards), usually point out and downwards. These usually disappear as the larvae start developing legs.
 
At earlier stages, frog tadpoles do indeed have external gills and as they grow further, the gills become encased by the operculum and are then hidden from view.
Only holds true for most Ranidae. Other frogs and toads may never have a free-swimming stage with external gills.

What you have there, though, is certainly a salamander larvae.
In the interests of furthering correct terminology, it's a larva. Plural is larvae.
 
I believe Bufo bufo tadpoles also have external gills in the very early stages after hatching...
 
I believe Bufo bufo tadpoles also have external gills in the very early stages after hatching...

You are absolutely right in your statement. However I said most don't have a "free-swimming stage with external gills" and this includes Bufo bufo. Bufo bufo tadpoles never have a free-swimming stage with external gills. Perhaps you misunderstood "free-swimming"? It does not mean hatched, it means animals that are independent (i.e. not still sitting in/on egg jelly or nearby plants or substrate).
 
By the Gosner staging system for exotrophic tadpoles (based upon visible morphological features), classically embryos (development in the egg) are stages 1-19, hatchlings are stages 20-25 and full blown tadpoles are stages 26-41. The gills are external through stages 19-24, the classical hatchling stages, which are also very transitional and represent a period of going from a relatively immobile embryo to a "free swimming" tadpole. If we wanted to get into a pedantic debate, the stage of attaining "free swimming" status is rather labile, as are other behaviours (some embryos for example hatch out as early as stage 16), and amongst various species (Bufo sp. included) swimming is often attained while the gills are still external to some degree. However, for the most part, John is fairly correct in that by the time most of these are swimming around in a form most people would recognise as a tadpole that they no longer have any discernable external gills.

And yes, my error for saying larvae instead of larva, it is a common mistake I make, MPSC.
 
If I had meant hatchlings or just hatched I wouldn't have said free-swimming...
 
Apology

When nerds fight....
lol

Apologies for my morphological generalisation with regards to larval gills. I hope I haven’t offended too many anurans (or biologists) :lol:. Not all anuran tadpoles develop external gills (I’ve never seen them on my dendrobatid tads/ebryos).

Enjoy raising your larvae (assuming there's more than one...)!

Edit: Note to self, use less (brackets)!
 
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Here's a picture today of my Tadpolamander.
 

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I go away for four days and they seem huge when I come home.
What are they going to do in mid-June when I go away for two weeks?

Does anyone know if they think they really are spotted salamander larvae? That's my best guess
at this point, just because their eggs were in a bunch.
 

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one things for sure and thats that it is a sal, not a frog. even my knowledge can tell me that :p

it looks like an ambystomid, but if i were to point you to a specific species it would be on gut instinct only. ask john, as it says on his info, he is an "ambystoma enthusiast" :p

Alex
 
Spotted sal egg masses tend to have a green tint to them, due to an algae that grows within the mass.
 
Well, they may have had a greenish tint, but they are/were in pond water which is kind of murky.
But (and I may be wrong) I think spotted sals are they only sal that lays eggs in bunches in my area.
They are certainly not frogs at this point of course! But until I get a definite ID I'm calling them "Tadpolamanders." A new species that I discovered ;)
 
Here we are today, about a week later...if anyone recognizes them, let me know.
 

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