Siren intermedia update

A little while ago, I posted some pictures of two S. intermedia that I had just acquired (http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-...f25-photo-video-gallery/76281-new-sirens.html) .

I thought I'd post an update to show how much they have grown and filled out! They have been upgraded to a large plastic box (about 100 litres of water, plus the air space above the water line), which is why the photo is a bit cloudy.

I think I have a pair (based on the fact that one is larger and fatter and the other has enlarged temporal muscles). I'm not going to try to breed them this coming Spring as they are only just at maturity and I think it would be better to wait another year.

Out of interest, do people think that they would need to be chilled in their home tank, or could they be chilled in smaller tubs in a chiller, which would be much easier? I'm thinking that they may need to establish territories during the cool season, but does anyone have any thoughts?

The plant is Hydrocotyle leucocephala, which I am very pleased with. It does a very good job of out-competing duckweed, and is replacing Elodea/Egeria in most of my tanks.

C

I´m in awe of the Hydrocotyle....all hail the Vegetable One! We are not worthy....
It really does look incredible, can´t wait for the one you sent me to take over! It´s growing fast now but i had no idea it could grow so large and so dense...aaaaargh...it´s going to be brilliant.
May i ask how many watts the light is to allow such a jungle?

I certainly hope the sirens are a pair. They look much better now, so nice and fat My levels of jealousy have increased 37%...you cruel, cruel man...I don´t know how you can sleep at night....

Wow - where can I get some of that amazing Hydrocotyle? It looks like it may be suitable for egg wrapping.

Send me a cutting!!

Mark, my pyrrhogaster had been playing a bit of havoc while trying to lay on some cuttings Chris sent me. They ended up cutting a few leaves and chewing others (They kept bitting specific leaves, i´m still confused). It also happened a couple of times with another species of Hydrocotyle. However, they seem to be behaving now and no murdered leaves have been found floating in a while, nor have any leaves been used for egg laying.
I say that merely as an annecdote, i haven´t had Hydrocotyle for that long, yet, and it may actually work, i don´t know.

I have another question, Chris is the Holy Hydrocotyle of Doom in the picture potted or rooted somewhere at all? It´s the one you sent me unpotted, right? Sorry, i keep having trouble remembering which is which...¬¬

The Sirens are miffed that the Hydrocotyle stole the spotlight! You can't see from the photo, but they have nearly doubled in length and about quadrupled in girth! I was taken aback looking at the old pictures.

I'm not sure what wattage the lamps are, Rodrigo, but they are normal Phillips room lighting bulbs. I think the plant needs a slightly different wavelenght, though. I have it growing in my musk turtle tank under a Reptisun UVB 2.0 bulb and the leaves are larger and more vibrantly green (althogh it's also warmer...). This the one that i sent to you as stems and a potted plant (the ones that lost all their leaves). I grow this plant emergently in a sand-soil mixture (it develops red and slightly hairy stems that way), but although this tank started out with the Hydrocotyle potted, it is now almost entirely unrooted (due both the actions of the plant and of the Sirens).

Mark - I can certainly send you some cuttings, although I think the leaves are too large for egg laying. A smaller-leafed species (H. verticilata) would be better for that, I think, although it prefers shallow water or damp soil where the leaves can grow emergently. One thing to note with the one in this picture (H. leucocephala/-is), like most other Hydrocotyles, is that it does need quite a lot of light and prefers slightly warmer temperatures. I have it in with my H. orientalis at 15C and while it is growing it is MUCH slower.

As an added bonus, it also makes little tiny white flowers.

C

Here is a photo of my Musk turtle tank (excuse the old mobile phone picture) showing two species of Hydrocotyle - foreground with the incised leaves is H. leucocepahala (as in the Siren tank) and the one at the back with the smaller, entire leaves is H. verticillata. These are growing better than any other tank under a 15W Repti Glo 2.0 bulb by exo-terra (not reptisun, as I said above).

C

Tell the Siren's the spotlight is back on them Chris! They're beautiful creatures, absolute stunner's! Can I ask where you came across them and what they are like to keep? I encountered them in my axolotl investigations and would love to know more about them. Don't fear that I'm thinking of becoming a Siren owner, they clearly need a degree of specialist care. Smashing plant also, you clearly have green thumbs!

I really love your Sirens.

They are really dead easy to keep. Easier than axolotl, I would say, even, as they don't need such cool temps (in the Summer they are happy up to about 28C and can survive 30C for a while). They are also not too fussy about water quality and do a lot of their respiration via lungs (although, of course, I keep water quality good). the produce a LOT of faeces, so a good filter and water changes are important (the plants help a lot, though). I was lucky enough to find them in a shop near me. They had had them for a year (a testament to their hardiness!) and gave them to me for a token price to get rid of them.

The only thing that is remotely difficult about them is keeping up with their appetite! These animals get raw prawn (their wild diet includes quite a lot of crayfish, it seems), earthworm and occassional other protein-y bits and pieces. The prawns get dunked in nutrobal every few feedings. They will easily finish three whole king prawns (chopped) between them every other day, although I think they would eat that daily if they had the option.

I used to feed them via forceps, but now I just dump a couple of piles of food into the tank and it is gone in a few seconds. They do occasionally nip at each other, but it's usually a case of mistaking each other for food. I wouldn't like to miss more than a couple of feedings, though!

C

Hi Chris,

hab´ve you ever tried trout pellets as food?

Uwe

Very nice.

I haven't tried trout pellets, but I have no doubt that they would eat them. Having said that, though, they don't eat 'amphibian pellets' (small, brown, sinking, stinking pellets). They go crazy smelling them, but don't ever actually grab them. Can you recommend a brand of trout pellet?

One other odd thing is that they don't seem to be able to digest blood worm - they eat them with gusto, but the worms are passed apparently uneaten in the faeces.

If these ever became widely available CB, they would make absolutely perfect caudate pets - largish, bold, greedy, tolerant of warmer water and relatively tolerant of a ranger of water qualities. If only they were easier to breed...I will have to move their enclosure to a cold room next year and cross my fingers!

froggy said:

If these ever became widely available CB, they would make absolutely perfect caudate pets - largish, bold, greedy, tolerant of warmer water and relatively tolerant of a ranger of water qualities. If only they were easier to breed...I will have to move their enclosure to a cold room next year and cross my fingers!

Click to expand...

There were offspring of this species available at the Gersfeld meeting. I know the breeder and he will probably have off-spring in the next year(s).

Uwe

You say they don´t feed on pellets and also not well on bloodworm, so just shrimp?

Do you know how he breeds them - water temperatures, set up etc?

They get prawns and chopped lob worm (Lumbricus terrestris). Bloodowrm are far too small for them anyway, now!

"Do you know how he breeds them - water temperatures, set up etc?"

Unfortunately no.

Uwe

Chris have you tried feeding fresh fish trout or salmon.

I have tried salmon and trout, but neither of these are digested well. The Sirens produce an orange, oily faeces, which I don't think is a good sign! They did enjoy a small amount of catfish (Well's catfish, I think) and also deforsted lancefish without odd stools, though, which are much less oily.

There isn't really a problem feeding them, as they eat worms as a good staple and then prawn and the occasional cockle for a bit of variety. I just find it interesting how animals that are so voracious in general seem to love the smell of pellets, but seem unable to differentiate them from non-food when they get close. It is also odd that they can't digest bloodworms, which seem to be otherwise universally digestable in caudates...

I know, i know, this thread is about the sirens, but i´m so happy with the Hydrocotyle you sent me that i´ll have to praise this plant a little more.
It´s really growing fast now, i love watching the daily changes in bud development and i don´t care how sad that makes me xD
Here are a couple of terrible pictures of what the spanish franchise looks like. I was going to send them on an e-mail, but i´ll put them here to annoy you

Edit: I know it´s still but a shadow of the gloriousness of your tank, but soon the conquest will be complete! Bwahahaha!