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Is the eastern tiger salamander the largest species?

FrogEyes

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Honestly, if I wanted record size data, I certainly wouldn't look for it here. I'd google "record size ambystoma tigrinum pdf", and just might go to Wikipedia to see if there were any convenient sources listed. This site, while great for husbandry information and zillions of anecdotes, is not a source for documented data, and I would never go to a forum to get hard data on ANY subject.
 

majikninja

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i dont know what kind of salamanders are up here in minnesota but quite a few years back after a 3 day thunder storm my dog was attacking what i thought was a branch but it ended up bieng a salamander a little over 2 ft long
 

Coastal Groovin

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Breeding Tiger sals and Axolotls has already been done. That is where the genes for albino axies come from.
 

paulschumann

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Here's some color variations of the Ambystoma mavortium diaboli I have found within a 10 mile radius of an area in central ND. The biggest one I have seen is just over 14" and 12-13" ones are not uncommon. hope this helps
 

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sde

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I dislike the idea Vesp has brought up :nono:. To me it sounds like your in this for money, sorry but that's kinda what I've gathered. I just dislike it all together. Like others have said it has been done before. Also I don't see why you cant just breed tigers, they can be neotones too you know. Just my opinion. -Seth
 

ron1fritsch

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I have a friend who is a herper in MN-WI and IL. His in-laws live in Douglas County, MN. The eastern Tiger was recorded there as being 14.25".

One year ago, he went out on a rainy mid-Aug nite. He saw 50 tigers walking away from the swamp. HE caught two that were 9" in length. He kept one and gave me the other. He wanted to see if we can get a salamander over 12".

One year later, my sal is 10.5", his is 11".

I have kept tigeres since 1976. Largest one i ever had was 12". Most are around 9".
 

willowcat

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Correct me if I am wrong, please. The hybrid that I have been reading about are 'not' between the Axolotl and Neotenic state Tiger, correct? Everything about the hybrid that I a have came across is between the terrestrial state Tiger and the Axie. Why is there not more info on the Neo and Axie. Is it because the Neo is too much of an anomaly?
 

mix234

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There are a few reasons I'd like to do it, in order from most to least:
1. It will be neat. I've just always wanted to have a neotenic tiger salamander.

2. I want to try to such a thing - I've always loved the idea of messing around with genetics, evolution, etc.
3.(Sell them both as the neotenic type, and the terrestrial hybrids.
4. Breeding a terrestrial tiger salamander with an axolotl will produce both morphing and non-morphing offspring. Two neotenic axolotl/tiger salamanders, I believe will produce about 25% terrestrial salamanders.
>>> Why is this awesome?
--> Because we currently can't breed terrestrial tiger salamanders very easily, and people harvest them from the wild. If you have two axolotl/tiger hybrids, some of the offspring will morph creating terrestrial adults that can be sold, with out harming natural populations. Additionally, they can and will (if I have much to do with it, I'm not sure how dedicated I am to it just yet) will mix and morph with Albinos, Leutistic, golden, etc giving terrestrial salamanders tons of different looks, increased demand, etc... same with make for many (hopefully) different looking axolotls. This might hopefully make it more favorable to buy a cool GFP pink blotchy tiger salamander instead of taking one out of the wild.

3. I want to create controversy to help people realize how asinine certain aspects of conservation is. Why do we care about pure inbred axolotls? The genes will continue on through out hybrids, and possibly increase demand and interest as a pet -- this could in turn should cause increased interest in preserving and keeping the wild ones wild and whatever.

4. I want to create discussion about what a species really is - since IMO an Axolotl, and a Tiger Salamander is the same species. If they can breed, and produce fertile offspring = same species. Just a bit different. its a subspecies. This is analogues to Africans and Asians. Why aren't they considered different species, but various types of tiger salamanders are not? Its just silly.

I personally hate that they try to kill the "invasive" tiger salamander and its hybrids from the California tiger. The California tiger salamanders genes are still passed on, and since it is now more fit to survive, there will be more of them, in more places, etc...
Who the hell cares if it now slightly different genetics and different features?

Also, to address the "messing with evolution" thing - I am part of evolution. Its stupid to make this false distinction between nature and human. We evolved just like the salamanders did.

Our highways, as natural as a rain forest.


Me mixing two types of tiger salamanders genetics together is also just as natural.
And it helps form symbiotic relationships with other organisms and other ecosystems.
It helps more salamanders propagate their genes, more people learn and experience the science or pet hobby of keeping caudatas.

So much good comes from this in my opinion, and hopefully I can make some money while doing it -- I'd love to hear arguments on why we should try to preserve the inbred genetics of the domesticated "probably can't survive in the wild" Axolotl (Ambystoma domestica), but I have a feeling I will be able to blow them out of the water (the ideas, not the axolotls! ;) ) and probably convince and convert a lot of you that are currently Anti-alteration to being pro-alteration.
interesting proyect, i have only one observation, tigers and axolotls are not the same specie, they are the same genus Ambystoma, but diferent specie, mexicanum and tigrinum or mavortium.
i encourage you to read this papper, Albino axolotls from an albino tiger salamander through hybridization.
Humphrey RR.

yes, albino axolotls are hybrids from a cross between a leucistic axolotl and an albino tiger salamander.

let me know about you progress and methods.

best regards
 
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  • Shane douglas:
    with axolotls would I basically have to keep buying and buying new axolotls to prevent inbred breeding which costs a lot of money??
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  • Thorninmyside:
    Not necessarily but if you’re wanting to continue to grow your breeding capacity then yes. Breeding axolotls isn’t a cheap hobby nor is it a get rich quick scheme. It costs a lot of money and time and deditcation
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    @Thorninmyside, I Lauren chen
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  • Clareclare:
    Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus Japanese . I'm raising them and have abandoned the terrarium at about 5 months old and switched to the aquatic setups you describe. I'm wondering if I could do this as soon as they morph?
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