A little beef about the name of this site :-)

[Bill B]

According to the herp books I have read, a newt is a type of salamander (Salamandridae, if I remember correctly). So... should just be called "the salamander portal"

 

[Molch]

but all of them, newt or salamander, belong to the order Caudata. The Salamandridae are only one family of many within that order.

(check out the caudata culture link under the caudata.org sites - tab above. There you'll find a listing of families)

 

[Kaysie]

It's like differentiating turtles and tortoises, or frogs and toads. We all know they're the same, but some people who come here may not!

Really, we should be the caudate portal, as some salamanders don't even have the distinction of the name 'salamander', mudpuppies, hellbenders, amphiuma, siren, etc.

 

[Azhael]

Actually newts are just some genera inside the family Salamandridae. It also contains salamanders, inf act it contains THE salamander, S.salamandra. It´s true that the classification between newts and salamanders is artifitial and doesn´t have any biological meaning, but it does have a cultural one, so i think retaining the name "newt" is definitely valid.

 

[DeCypher]

Calling it Salamandridae would leave out many species of Caudates. All the Ambystomids, Hellbenders, Amphiumas, Sirens, Water Dogs, and many others.

~ I don't really care what we call the site, but I think Amphibia would be a better choice. Mainly because there's a section on Anurans and Gymphonians. I already love the name though, and I don't adapt too well to change.

 

[Azhael]

Following that logic it should probably be Lissamphibia.
However, the anuran and caecilian sectors of this forum are absolutely minoritary. Given that John has another excellent forum dedicated to anurans, the section here is quite redundant.
The name Caudata is VERY descriptive and apropriate, the perfect name for the perfect caudate forum

 

[Bill B]

Two quotes from above:

"The Salamandridae are only one family of many within that order. "

I was attempting to point out that Salamandridae has a salamander-sounding name. Hence, it is a type of salamander.

"Actually newts are just some genera inside the family Salamandridae. It also contains salamanders, inf act it contains THE salamander, S.salamandra. It´s true that the classification between newts and salamanders is artifitial and doesn´t have any biological meaning, but it does have a cultural one, so i think retaining the name "newt" is definitely valid."

When you say "THE salamander", I think you mean, uh...... I was a biology major, but I can't think of the word. Just because the scientific name is S. salamandra doesn't mean that others aren't salamanders. S. salamandra but others was the first of this type described, but others later described that are suitably similar so that they can all be called salamanders.

 

[Kaysie]

They are called fire salamanders (Salamandra salamandra). Not ALL the members of Salamandridae are newts but all 'newts' belong in the family of Salamandridae. Clear as mud?

Oh science, gotta love it!

 

[Otterwoman]

Yeah how about the slimy muddy creatures portal?

 

[Ken Worthington]

Yeah how about the slimy muddy creatures portal?

Now that I do like!

Also, in view of the nutritional requirements of these 'slimy muddy creatures', can we change the title of this thread from 'A little beef about....' to "A little earthworm about the name of this site " :happy:

 

[Bill B]

Below is a quote from my former advisor - what I was getting at. (And, yes, I found that Salamandra salamandra was the Fire Salamander, very common in Europe.... was not trying to find the English name of that.)

The first species described in a genus is the type species. When the generic name is the same as the specific name (something not allowed for plants), it is called a tautonym. I don't think there is any rule to make a tautonym for the first species in a genus, but in animal nomenclature, it is at least allowed.

 

[Ken Worthington]

Good point, Bill :happy:

Can I just add for the sake of clarity that the word ' Tautonym' has different meanings when applied to linguistics rather than biological classification.

 

[ozarkhellbender]

From what I see, this isn't a beef about the name of the site (Caudata.org), it's a beef about the description or subtitle of the forum (The Newt & Salamander Portal).

 

[Bill B]

From what I see, this isn't a beef about the name of the site (Caudata.org), it's a beef about the description or subtitle of the forum (The Newt & Salamander Portal).

It's like www.facebook.com vs. "Facebook". The URL vs. the name.