Adult Axolotl Showing Several Strange Symptoms -- Apologies for Excessive Length

[FblthpTheLost]

My axolotl is named Fblthp (Fb for short). My girlfriend and I have had her for a little more than two years, since she was a baby.

First, I apologize for the excessive length of this post, but it has been a really chaotic roller-coaster of events, and I want to detail everything that's happened because her symptoms have been so all-over-the-place that I have no idea what steps to take. Second, here are some important details before getting into my predicament:

Tank:
The tank she is living in right now is 40 gallons, with a 40-gallon filter. She has been living in this tank for three or four months; before then, she lived in a 20-gallon tank since she was only a couple weeks old (we got her when she was only about two inches long). Her current tank (the 40-gal. one) is bare-bottom, but her previous one (20 gal.) had fine substrate. I did not learn until much later that substrate was a bad idea, but as far as I could ever tell it never seemed to bother her. The substrate's individual little pieces never exceeded 1-2mm in diameter, and when she was really little (smaller than six inches long) we fed her in a separate container, anyway. She has several live plants in her tank along with a few different places to hide.

Water Parameters:
For the 2+ years I've had her, her water has always tested well, or close to it. We cycled the tank before we got her; when we moved her to the new tank three months ago, we kept all her original water from the first tank, and even let her original 20-gal. filter run alongside the 40-gal. one in the new tank for about a month or two. The old filter still sits in the new tank, but it doesn't run. The water we've always used for her is well water from our tap. We test with API's Freshwater Master Test Kit.
The pH usually varies from 6.0-6.5, which I understand is slightly too low. (Their ideal, from what I've researched, is 7.0 to 7.5)
Ammonia is always 0 ppm
Nitrites are always 0 ppm
Nitrates are usually 5.0 ppm, which is also what the water straight out of the tap tests at. (I have read that anything under 20ppm is acceptable with regular water changes)
Temperature is usually 64 Fahrenheit, but sometimes drops as low as 50 in winter months. The AC is always keeping the room she is in cool, when necessary, and except for when we first got her I have never seen the temperature rise higher than 66 on a bad day.
Her water is changed once a week, usually around 25-40%

Diet:
When she was young, we fed her blood worm cubes. After she reached about 6 in. long, we switched to nightcrawlers and pellets (Invert Aquatics Soft Pellets, specifically for salamanders). She is typically fed either one nightcrawler or three pellets every three days, which I have found consistently keeps her tummy about as wide as the widest part of her head. Pellets and nightcrawlers are all she has been fed over the past year and a half.

Now, on to my problem...

About two weeks ago, my girlfriend and I noticed that Fb became a lot less active and her overall 'posture' declined; she of course has the dopey "drag-my-whole-body-around" posture that most other adult axies seem to, but she had become unable to lift herself from the floor of her tank. Whereas before only the biggest part of her tummy would hit the floor of her tank when she walked, it now looked like her whole body was almost being "pushed against," or weighed-down into, the ground.

I gave her a tea bath, but when I placed her back in the tank, she sank right to the bottom, even flipping around onto her back for a second or two. This frightened me, as I've never seen her do that before. I decided to fridge her, assuming that maybe she just was constipated. Our fridge is far too cold (almost 20 Fahrenheit), so instead of fridging her the normal way, we froze several water bottles, filled a cooler with a small reservoir of water, then put two glass tupperware containers in the cooler, also filled with water, to house the axolotl. (We used two at a time to accommodate water changes; keep her in one while the other, with fresh water, can get down to a matching temp.) We put two frozen water bottles at a time into the reservoir, and changed them every 3-4 hours. Using this method, the temperature fluctuated between 38F at the very coldest, and around 50F at the absolute hottest (but 90% of the time it was exactly 42F).

Fridging made no difference, so we scheduled an appointment with a vet who specializes in herpetology, and on Aug 23--one week ago--we took her. It was an hour-long trip, one way, and we did our best to pack her and keep her cool. The vet gave her an ultrasound, discovering that she has a mild case of hydrocoelom, which I believe is water retention. We were given an antibiotic to give her orally every day for two weeks. The vet had given her her first dose that day.

When we first brought her home from the vet and back into her tank, she immediately sank to the bottom and just sat where she landed (which was on her porcelain food plate). Her posture was the same, still looking heavy and dragging every part of her underbelly around. We wanted to give her time to de-stress in her tank, but that night we resumed fridging (when fridging her/unfridging her, we gradually allow her water to cool, by the way--we never moved her instantly between great temperature differences). That same night, she had defecated a small amount (the first time in a week), and so we thought we were on the right track.

Whenever I would change her water over the following week (starting after Aug. 24th), I noticed white fluffy clumps floating in it. I thought this was her shedding her slime coat due to stress at first, so I didn't think too much of it (we figured she'd start getting stressed, after all). At this point, she did not have any white clumps on her body, so I didn't think it was fungus or anything.

As the days progressed, her swelling resumed. It had stayed about the same, and hadn't increased or decreased. We gave her her meds the first day (Aug. 24) by removing her from her tub onto a wet dish and gently wrestling it into her mouth. We took extra precautions not to hurt her but it took several minutes to get the medicine into her mouth. We later discovered that she had spit a lot of it up. The next day (Aug. 25), we found a new method of wrapping her in a moistened washcloth to administer her meds. We found the method on this forum, and followed it the best we could--the washcloth we used was kept moistened in the second tub in her cooler, had never been washed with bleach, and we ran boiling water over it each time before we used it with her. (Note: the boiling was done 24 hours before using it with the axolotl--the washcloth had plenty of time to cool and match her cooler temp before we wrapped her in it. I know that might go without saying, but I want to make it perfectly clear that we did NOT wrap our axolotl up in a boiling-hot washcloth.) Also, we wear powderless vinyl gloves whenever we handle her now, which we rinse before use.

This method did work, but I believe it stressed her out a lot. On Aug. 25, she spit up a lot of her meds again, so on Aug. 26, when we used the wrapping method again, I gently stuck the syringe a bit farther into her mouth (approx. 1-1.5 inches deep) to try and squirt her medicine directly into her throat. She did not seem to like this at all, and laid very still when we unwrapped her from the washcloth. She swam a bit when we placed her back in the tub, though, so I thought that maybe she was just scared. When I checked on her again about half an hour later (around 8:30 p.m.), I was met with another shock.

At first, I thought she had died. She was curled up and when I lifted her, she felt very stiff. She barely reacted to my holding her, and I could feel her entire slime coat had shed. She also felt colder than usual, even though her temp still read 42F. It felt like she was tensing every part of her little body. Eventually, she did move, but it was very slight. Just kind of moving her arms/legs. I didn't know what else to do, so I just waited out the night, and then contacted the vet the next morning. She did not spit any of the medicine up as far as I could tell, but I did find a clumpy, clear residue floating atop the water. It was like one roughly circular, connected clear film. I can only assume that this was a part of her slime coat, because it didn't really look like her previously spit-up medicine.

By the next morning (Aug. 27), Fb was a lot better. She still felt kind of stiff, and her slime coat was still shoddy, but she was moving more and was more responsive. Still, I contacted the vet, and--on her advice--decided to stop the medication and simply monitor Fb's behavior for the time being, fearing that the meds are over-stressing her. I kept her fridged, with daily water changes, and gradually her condition seemed to improve. However, the next day (Aug. 28), we actually saw fungus growing on her. It was white-gray clumps, attached to her head and feet and some parts of her body.

After doing some research, we decided the best thing to do would be to unfridge her. I've read conflicting reports on whether or not fridging is good or bad for fungus, but since she had been fridged for close to a week, I thought that at the very least it would help with her stress. The night of Aug. 28 I gave her a salt bath (again, following guides on this forum). The next morning, I gave her another bath, and a subsequent one that night, 12 hours later. That was yesterday; today, I've given her her morning salt bath, but have yet to give her her night time one.

But here is the part that is really confusing to me.

Her posture has improved tremendously. She no longer drags her tummy everywhere, and is very easily holding herself up. She's incredibly responsive again, and--at least insofar as her behavior is concerned--is like her old self. She's even swimming around (at least, as much as she can in her tub). Her slime coat also seems to have at least partially returned, because she's slippery again (unlike when I found her super stiff on Aug. 26).

Her rear end is floating now, and her legs are lopsided (one tends to jut right up almost out of the water while the other drags on the ground). She can still move them, however, and they aren't always poking up like this. She is showing all the signs of constipation/impaction, but fridging is supposed to be a remedy for that; she had been fridged for a week and only defecated once right at the beginning. Her swelling has barely gone down, as well.

Furthermore, I have tried feeding her a single pellet numerous times every day for the past week. She has yet to show any interest in them (I give her around half an hour to eat them per attempt). She hasn't eaten since a few days before the vet, and even then, she only ate two of the three pellets we put in front of her.

As of writing this, her fungal infection (at least, as far as I can see) has mostly gone away. There is way less cloudy stuff in her water when I do changes now, and I expect that by tomorrow or the next day at the very latest there won't be any, so I want to drop down to a single salt bath for at least a few days to make sure we get it all. I also want to start giving her a daily tea bath in order to further soothe her skin.

(One more thing. We noticed right around when a lot of this started that the container her most recent batch of worms was living in had a small amount of white-looking mold growing in the dirt, toward the bottom. It is my fear that, maybe, she ate a worm that had eaten some of that fungus or whatever it is, and now has an internal infection that's blocking up her system. She hasn't eaten any worms since that one.)

So I guess I'm just asking for any kind of advice or input. I'm really at my wit's end with how to help her. My instinct is to put her back on her antibiotic once she's off her salt baths and is feeling less stressed. I also want to return her to her tank, to further help her stress levels. I've done two 50% water changes in her tank (one yesterday, one the day before) to ensure that any gunk in there that could have caused this is gone. I haven't cleaned any of her tank decor or plants, but I want to do that before putting her back in.

And, of course, I am going to check in with the vet once more to get her input.

If you have read this far, I just want to say thanks. If I've been making a lot of terrible decisions with taking care of Fblthp, just know it isn't intentional. Everything I do with Fb is the result of extensive research (ever since I found out how dangerous substrate can be, I'm paranoid constantly that I'm not doing the best for her). She has almost never shown any sign of stress or unhappiness--even now (besides the shedding of her slime coat). When we first changed her tank, she swam really frantically for a couple of days, but eventually calmed down. We also got her a new, big hide and that seemed to ease her. I have only seen her tilt her gills forward twice in her life. Once was the day we brought her back from the vet after the long trip, and the second was over a year ago, and I don't even remember what caused it. We did a water change and fed her, and they went back to normal the next day.

She normally swims around a lot in the early morning/night time (when there's less light), but never in such a way that I thought she was panicking or trying to escape harmful conditions. Her gills always look healthy, as does her body. Everyone at the vet's office complimented how good she looked, and everything on her physical exam came back normal except for her coelom/muskuloskeletal system (i.e. the water retention). This is the first time she has ever shown severe symptoms of anything. She has otherwise been a perfectly happy, active axolotl for the 2+ years I've had her.

Once more, I'm sorry that this was such a long post. There's just been a lot that's happened, and I didn't want to leave anything out that might be important.

Thank you again for reading this, and if you can think of anything or have any input at all, please don't be afraid to respond.

 

[axolotl nerd]

My axolotl is named Fblthp (Fb for short). My girlfriend and I have had her for a little more than two years, since she was a baby.

First, I apologize for the excessive length of this post, but it has been a really chaotic roller-coaster of events, and I want to detail everything that's happened because her symptoms have been so all-over-the-place that I have no idea what steps to take. Second, here are some important details before getting into my predicament:

Tank:
The tank she is living in right now is 40 gallons, with a 40-gallon filter. She has been living in this tank for three or four months; before then, she lived in a 20-gallon tank since she was only a couple weeks old (we got her when she was only about two inches long). Her current tank (the 40-gal. one) is bare-bottom, but her previous one (20 gal.) had fine substrate. I did not learn until much later that substrate was a bad idea, but as far as I could ever tell it never seemed to bother her. The substrate's individual little pieces never exceeded 1-2mm in diameter, and when she was really little (smaller than six inches long) we fed her in a separate container, anyway. She has several live plants in her tank along with a few different places to hide.

Water Parameters:
For the 2+ years I've had her, her water has always tested well, or close to it. We cycled the tank before we got her; when we moved her to the new tank three months ago, we kept all her original water from the first tank, and even let her original 20-gal. filter run alongside the 40-gal. one in the new tank for about a month or two. The old filter still sits in the new tank, but it doesn't run. The water we've always used for her is well water from our tap. We test with API's Freshwater Master Test Kit.
The pH usually varies from 6.0-6.5, which I understand is slightly too low. (Their ideal, from what I've researched, is 7.0 to 7.5)
Ammonia is always 0 ppm
Nitrites are always 0 ppm
Nitrates are usually 5.0 ppm, which is also what the water straight out of the tap tests at. (I have read that anything under 20ppm is acceptable with regular water changes)
Temperature is usually 64 Fahrenheit, but sometimes drops as low as 50 in winter months. The AC is always keeping the room she is in cool, when necessary, and except for when we first got her I have never seen the temperature rise higher than 66 on a bad day.
Her water is changed once a week, usually around 25-40%

Diet:
When she was young, we fed her blood worm cubes. After she reached about 6 in. long, we switched to nightcrawlers and pellets (Invert Aquatics Soft Pellets, specifically for salamanders). She is typically fed either one nightcrawler or three pellets every three days, which I have found consistently keeps her tummy about as wide as the widest part of her head. Pellets and nightcrawlers are all she has been fed over the past year and a half.

Now, on to my problem...

About two weeks ago, my girlfriend and I noticed that Fb became a lot less active and her overall 'posture' declined; she of course has the dopey "drag-my-whole-body-around" posture that most other adult axies seem to, but she had become unable to lift herself from the floor of her tank. Whereas before only the biggest part of her tummy would hit the floor of her tank when she walked, it now looked like her whole body was almost being "pushed against," or weighed-down into, the ground.

I gave her a tea bath, but when I placed her back in the tank, she sank right to the bottom, even flipping around onto her back for a second or two. This frightened me, as I've never seen her do that before. I decided to fridge her, assuming that maybe she just was constipated. Our fridge is far too cold (almost 20 Fahrenheit), so instead of fridging her the normal way, we froze several water bottles, filled a cooler with a small reservoir of water, then put two glass tupperware containers in the cooler, also filled with water, to house the axolotl. (We used two at a time to accommodate water changes; keep her in one while the other, with fresh water, can get down to a matching temp.) We put two frozen water bottles at a time into the reservoir, and changed them every 3-4 hours. Using this method, the temperature fluctuated between 38F at the very coldest, and around 50F at the absolute hottest (but 90% of the time it was exactly 42F).

Fridging made no difference, so we scheduled an appointment with a vet who specializes in herpetology, and on Aug 23--one week ago--we took her. It was an hour-long trip, one way, and we did our best to pack her and keep her cool. The vet gave her an ultrasound, discovering that she has a mild case of hydrocoelom, which I believe is water retention. We were given an antibiotic to give her orally every day for two weeks. The vet had given her her first dose that day.

When we first brought her home from the vet and back into her tank, she immediately sank to the bottom and just sat where she landed (which was on her porcelain food plate). Her posture was the same, still looking heavy and dragging every part of her underbelly around. We wanted to give her time to de-stress in her tank, but that night we resumed fridging (when fridging her/unfridging her, we gradually allow her water to cool, by the way--we never moved her instantly between great temperature differences). That same night, she had defecated a small amount (the first time in a week), and so we thought we were on the right track.

Whenever I would change her water over the following week (starting after Aug. 24th), I noticed white fluffy clumps floating in it. I thought this was her shedding her slime coat due to stress at first, so I didn't think too much of it (we figured she'd start getting stressed, after all). At this point, she did not have any white clumps on her body, so I didn't think it was fungus or anything.

As the days progressed, her swelling resumed. It had stayed about the same, and hadn't increased or decreased. We gave her her meds the first day (Aug. 24) by removing her from her tub onto a wet dish and gently wrestling it into her mouth. We took extra precautions not to hurt her but it took several minutes to get the medicine into her mouth. We later discovered that she had spit a lot of it up. The next day (Aug. 25), we found a new method of wrapping her in a moistened washcloth to administer her meds. We found the method on this forum, and followed it the best we could--the washcloth we used was kept moistened in the second tub in her cooler, had never been washed with bleach, and we ran boiling water over it each time before we used it with her. (Note: the boiling was done 24 hours before using it with the axolotl--the washcloth had plenty of time to cool and match her cooler temp before we wrapped her in it. I know that might go without saying, but I want to make it perfectly clear that we did NOT wrap our axolotl up in a boiling-hot washcloth.) Also, we wear powderless vinyl gloves whenever we handle her now, which we rinse before use.

This method did work, but I believe it stressed her out a lot. On Aug. 25, she spit up a lot of her meds again, so on Aug. 26, when we used the wrapping method again, I gently stuck the syringe a bit farther into her mouth (approx. 1-1.5 inches deep) to try and squirt her medicine directly into her throat. She did not seem to like this at all, and laid very still when we unwrapped her from the washcloth. She swam a bit when we placed her back in the tub, though, so I thought that maybe she was just scared. When I checked on her again about half an hour later (around 8:30 p.m.), I was met with another shock.

At first, I thought she had died. She was curled up and when I lifted her, she felt very stiff. She barely reacted to my holding her, and I could feel her entire slime coat had shed. She also felt colder than usual, even though her temp still read 42F. It felt like she was tensing every part of her little body. Eventually, she did move, but it was very slight. Just kind of moving her arms/legs. I didn't know what else to do, so I just waited out the night, and then contacted the vet the next morning. She did not spit any of the medicine up as far as I could tell, but I did find a clumpy, clear residue floating atop the water. It was like one roughly circular, connected clear film. I can only assume that this was a part of her slime coat, because it didn't really look like her previously spit-up medicine.

By the next morning (Aug. 27), Fb was a lot better. She still felt kind of stiff, and her slime coat was still shoddy, but she was moving more and was more responsive. Still, I contacted the vet, and--on her advice--decided to stop the medication and simply monitor Fb's behavior for the time being, fearing that the meds are over-stressing her. I kept her fridged, with daily water changes, and gradually her condition seemed to improve. However, the next day (Aug. 28), we actually saw fungus growing on her. It was white-gray clumps, attached to her head and feet and some parts of her body.

After doing some research, we decided the best thing to do would be to unfridge her. I've read conflicting reports on whether or not fridging is good or bad for fungus, but since she had been fridged for close to a week, I thought that at the very least it would help with her stress. The night of Aug. 28 I gave her a salt bath (again, following guides on this forum). The next morning, I gave her another bath, and a subsequent one that night, 12 hours later. That was yesterday; today, I've given her her morning salt bath, but have yet to give her her night time one.

But here is the part that is really confusing to me.

Her posture has improved tremendously. She no longer drags her tummy everywhere, and is very easily holding herself up. She's incredibly responsive again, and--at least insofar as her behavior is concerned--is like her old self. She's even swimming around (at least, as much as she can in her tub). Her slime coat also seems to have at least partially returned, because she's slippery again (unlike when I found her super stiff on Aug. 26).

Her rear end is floating now, and her legs are lopsided (one tends to jut right up almost out of the water while the other drags on the ground). She can still move them, however, and they aren't always poking up like this. She is showing all the signs of constipation/impaction, but fridging is supposed to be a remedy for that; she had been fridged for a week and only defecated once right at the beginning. Her swelling has barely gone down, as well.

Furthermore, I have tried feeding her a single pellet numerous times every day for the past week. She has yet to show any interest in them (I give her around half an hour to eat them per attempt). She hasn't eaten since a few days before the vet, and even then, she only ate two of the three pellets we put in front of her.

As of writing this, her fungal infection (at least, as far as I can see) has mostly gone away. There is way less cloudy stuff in her water when I do changes now, and I expect that by tomorrow or the next day at the very latest there won't be any, so I want to drop down to a single salt bath for at least a few days to make sure we get it all. I also want to start giving her a daily tea bath in order to further soothe her skin.

(One more thing. We noticed right around when a lot of this started that the container her most recent batch of worms was living in had a small amount of white-looking mold growing in the dirt, toward the bottom. It is my fear that, maybe, she ate a worm that had eaten some of that fungus or whatever it is, and now has an internal infection that's blocking up her system. She hasn't eaten any worms since that one.)

So I guess I'm just asking for any kind of advice or input. I'm really at my wit's end with how to help her. My instinct is to put her back on her antibiotic once she's off her salt baths and is feeling less stressed. I also want to return her to her tank, to further help her stress levels. I've done two 50% water changes in her tank (one yesterday, one the day before) to ensure that any gunk in there that could have caused this is gone. I haven't cleaned any of her tank decor or plants, but I want to do that before putting her back in.

And, of course, I am going to check in with the vet once more to get her input.

If you have read this far, I just want to say thanks. If I've been making a lot of terrible decisions with taking care of Fblthp, just know it isn't intentional. Everything I do with Fb is the result of extensive research (ever since I found out how dangerous substrate can be, I'm paranoid constantly that I'm not doing the best for her). She has almost never shown any sign of stress or unhappiness--even now (besides the shedding of her slime coat). When we first changed her tank, she swam really frantically for a couple of days, but eventually calmed down. We also got her a new, big hide and that seemed to ease her. I have only seen her tilt her gills forward twice in her life. Once was the day we brought her back from the vet after the long trip, and the second was over a year ago, and I don't even remember what caused it. We did a water change and fed her, and they went back to normal the next day.

She normally swims around a lot in the early morning/night time (when there's less light), but never in such a way that I thought she was panicking or trying to escape harmful conditions. Her gills always look healthy, as does her body. Everyone at the vet's office complimented how good she looked, and everything on her physical exam came back normal except for her coelom/muskuloskeletal system (i.e. the water retention). This is the first time she has ever shown severe symptoms of anything. She has otherwise been a perfectly happy, active axolotl for the 2+ years I've had her.

Once more, I'm sorry that this was such a long post. There's just been a lot that's happened, and I didn't want to leave anything out that might be important.

Thank you again for reading this, and if you can think of anything or have any input at all, please don't be afraid to respond.

goodness, this is very complex. i don’t have any real advice, but she sounds as though she’s getting better?

 

[AxolotlMama]

Can you please add a picture of her.Maybe this has something to do with genetics I'm as stumped as you.

 

[AMurry24537]

I read through the whole thing, and quite honestly, I can't find a single wrong action on your part. If you're doing something wrong, I'd be doing it wrong in the same circumstances, lol. Maybe others have ideas, but on your end, I don't think there's really anything else you can do differently. Frankly, I'm not really sure what your question is. It seems that time and the treatments are at least helping somewhat. Like you said, I'd check with the vet before restarting the antibiotics. Hope she feels better soon!

 

[FblthpTheLost]

Can you please add a picture of her.Maybe this has something to do with genetics I'm as stumped as you.

This is the most recent picture I have of her, taken last night (Aug 31). The pale splotches on her side are totally normal; she's had them ever since she grew up (she was a lot lighter as a baby). The same goes for her pale-looking gills. I used to worry a lot that she wasn't getting enough oxygen, but as far as I could ever tell her gills were normal. They definitely look a little more scraggly than usual right now, though--especially the frills

She really doesn't even look bloated if I didn't know better, but she hasn't eaten in two weeks, so I know she shouldn't be this plump

 

[faebugz]

Well done so far, especially going to the vet. Okay, I'm gonna give you advice that is purely based off of a mistake I've made, so it may not be relevant. However, I can see we have a pretty similar way of thinking from your post, so maybe consider it?

Chill the heck out and leave her alone. I know it's really hard to, because it feels like if everything isn't perfect it'll all be for nothing, but at this point I think you've solved the issue. You're likely correct that it was a bad worm, trust your instincts (not your brain!) Your brain is in panic mode telling you to throw everything you've got at this perceived enemy, but I think you know that truthfully she is on the mend now.

More antibiotics will weaken her and possibly kill her, like you almost experienced. Axolotls are truely amazing creatures. They are the only animal we know of that can literally regenerate half of its brain if it gets damaged, among other things. On top of that, they have very good immune systems if they are cared for properly (genetics plays a role as well I'm sure). With any animal, humans included, antibiotics should be used as minimally as possible, but x20 that for amphibians due to their sensitive nature. If you aren't 100% positive that she has an infection that could kill her, short term, you are far better off letting her heal herself. She can and she will. She just needs an environment totally free of stress.

If I was you, I would make sure the tank is very clean (don't rinse things off unless they're covered in chunks or something), then get her back in the tank and leave her there. Keep the lights off. Make sure your filter is well baffled. Monitor her, but stop with the baths and taking her out. Just let her destress and relax. She will heal herself probably within a few days.

Give her a couple days before you offer food again. If she was a healthy weight when she last ate, she will be able to go at least a couple weeks with no serious issues.

As far as I understand, the fridging shouldn't have caused the issue- it was likely her body fighting off whatever the worm gave her that caused the bloating/shedding. Amphibians secrete from their skin easily, so based on your description I think that was the infection migrating from her organs rather than slime coat shedding. The antibiotics, being so strong, killed off the bacteria perhaps too quickly for her system to keep up, so her immune system was flooded with both dead bacteria as well as live and the drug. Either way, it seems like she is fine now

Oh and to give you a bit of backstory on my mistake: I had a betta splendens I loved named Flower, but he had very poor genetics and was sickly from the start. He was my first fish and I loved him a lot. I ended up going way to overboard with medicine for him though since it was one illness after the other with him. Like you, I was scared I was not doing enough. In the end, I don't think I could have saved him. But I could have made him more comfortable in his final days. Drugs are very hard on our little friends systems, they should be a last resort except for extreme cases.

And to bring it all together, I'll tell you what just happened with my axolotl Lavender: I went camping for two weeks, and had a friend who I was supposed to be paying to come take care of my fish and such. Well my father in law, who I live with, decided to sneak behind my back and told her not to bother once I was gone. On top of that, for some reason he felt compelled to dump half a container of shrimp pellets in her tank and left them to rot. I was unaware of this when I asked my friend to come catch her and take her to his house to fridge since a heatwave was starting before I got back. He'd never done it before so it took him literally an hour to catch her. By the time I got her back, she was incredibly depressed and traumatized, as well as the rotten pellets had given her a throat infection. On the advice of a vet, I left her the heck alone in the dark except to keep the water very clean. It only took about 5 days for her to start eating again, and a couple weeks to act normal. Had I started trying to treat for something, or give her meds, it likely would have kept her from healing properly due to stress, and the fridge being so small and unfamiliar wouldn't have helped. Catching them also freaks them out no matter how practiced you are at it. So I will reiterate it is best to leave her alone, you've done what you can so trust in her super powers to heal herself

 

[FblthpTheLost]

Well done so far, especially going to the vet. Okay, I'm gonna give you advice that is purely based off of a mistake I've made, so it may not be relevant. However, I can see we have a pretty similar way of thinking from your post, so maybe consider it?

Chill the heck out and leave her alone. I know it's really hard to, because it feels like if everything isn't perfect it'll all be for nothing, but at this point I think you've solved the issue. You're likely correct that it was a bad worm, trust your instincts (not your brain!) Your brain is in panic mode telling you to throw everything you've got at this perceived enemy, but I think you know that truthfully she is on the mend now.

More antibiotics will weaken her and possibly kill her, like you almost experienced. Axolotls are truely amazing creatures. They are the only animal we know of that can literally regenerate half of its brain if it gets damaged, among other things. On top of that, they have very good immune systems if they are cared for properly (genetics plays a role as well I'm sure). With any animal, humans included, antibiotics should be used as minimally as possible, but x20 that for amphibians due to their sensitive nature. If you aren't 100% positive that she has an infection that could kill her, short term, you are far better off letting her heal herself. She can and she will. She just needs an environment totally free of stress.

If I was you, I would make sure the tank is very clean (don't rinse things off unless they're covered in chunks or something), then get her back in the tank and leave her there. Keep the lights off. Make sure your filter is well baffled. Monitor her, but stop with the baths and taking her out. Just let her destress and relax. She will heal herself probably within a few days.

Give her a couple days before you offer food again. If she was a healthy weight when she last ate, she will be able to go at least a couple weeks with no serious issues.

As far as I understand, the fridging shouldn't have caused the issue- it was likely her body fighting off whatever the worm gave her that caused the bloating/shedding. Amphibians secrete from their skin easily, so based on your description I think that was the infection migrating from her organs rather than slime coat shedding. The antibiotics, being so strong, killed off the bacteria perhaps too quickly for her system to keep up, so her immune system was flooded with both dead bacteria as well as live and the drug. Either way, it seems like she is fine now

Oh and to give you a bit of backstory on my mistake: I had a betta splendens I loved named Flower, but he had very poor genetics and was sickly from the start. He was my first fish and I loved him a lot. I ended up going way to overboard with medicine for him though since it was one illness after the other with him. Like you, I was scared I was not doing enough. In the end, I don't think I could have saved him. But I could have made him more comfortable in his final days. Drugs are very hard on our little friends systems, they should be a last resort except for extreme cases.

And to bring it all together, I'll tell you what just happened with my axolotl Lavender: I went camping for two weeks, and had a friend who I was supposed to be paying to come take care of my fish and such. Well my father in law, who I live with, decided to sneak behind my back and told her not to bother once I was gone. On top of that, for some reason he felt compelled to dump half a container of shrimp pellets in her tank and left them to rot. I was unaware of this when I asked my friend to come catch her and take her to his house to fridge since a heatwave was starting before I got back. He'd never done it before so it took him literally an hour to catch her. By the time I got her back, she was incredibly depressed and traumatized, as well as the rotten pellets had given her a throat infection. On the advice of a vet, I left her the heck alone in the dark except to keep the water very clean. It only took about 5 days for her to start eating again, and a couple weeks to act normal. Had I started trying to treat for something, or give her meds, it likely would have kept her from healing properly due to stress, and the fridge being so small and unfamiliar wouldn't have helped. Catching them also freaks them out no matter how practiced you are at it. So I will reiterate it is best to leave her alone, you've done what you can so trust in her super powers to heal herself

Thank you for such a detailed response

We tried starting her back on her meds again today (with vet approval), but to no avail. It's just so difficult getting that syringe in her mouth without wrestling with her (which I am so averse to doing since axolotls are so fragile). We decided to just consider today's dose a lost cause since we didn't want to further stress her

We got her fresh worms yesterday (much smaller--no more nightcrawlers), and she ate one in It's entirety, but then spit it back out. I kept at it for maybe ten minutes, and she devoured it a second time with the same result. By the end, she just seemed to be afraid of it, so I also chalked that up to a lost cause

We have a small amount of salt left over, so I'm going to finish it up just to make sure the infection is gone, but she's down to only a single salt bath per day now. I'm mainly just worried that she's still got some kind of internal infection; I still see cloudy bits in her water during water changes, and im beginning to suspect she may be spitting them them. On the whole, I tend to agree when it comes to using as little antibiotics as possible, but I'd hate to just stop trying when she may still need an extra push

As to returning her to her tank, we're already in the process of getting it ready for her. We did a 50% water change two days in a row (which, based on some other reading on this forum, should go a long way in clearing out any gunk that might be in her water without crashing the cycle). Hopefully she'll be back in the tank by tomorrow

She was well-fed up until this point, and so far it's been about two weeks since she last ate (two pellets). She is still swollen and is still not defecating, but maybe that will change when she's less stressed

And, in any case, I do agree that, even if she won't get better, it is better for her to spend whatever time she may have left somewhere familiar. She's gotten back to being as responsive and mobile as she was before, which gives me hope

 

[faebugz]

M

Thank you for such a detailed response

We tried starting her back on her meds again today (with vet approval), but to no avail. It's just so difficult getting that syringe in her mouth without wrestling with her (which I am so averse to doing since axolotls are so fragile). We decided to just consider today's dose a lost cause since we didn't want to further stress her

We got her fresh worms yesterday (much smaller--no more nightcrawlers), and she ate one in It's entirety, but then spit it back out. I kept at it for maybe ten minutes, and she devoured it a second time with the same result. By the end, she just seemed to be afraid of it, so I also chalked that up to a lost cause

We have a small amount of salt left over, so I'm going to finish it up just to make sure the infection is gone, but she's down to only a single salt bath per day now. I'm mainly just worried that she's still got some kind of internal infection; I still see cloudy bits in her water during water changes, and im beginning to suspect she may be spitting them them. On the whole, I tend to agree when it comes to using as little antibiotics as possible, but I'd hate to just stop trying when she may still need an extra push

As to returning her to her tank, we're already in the process of getting it ready for her. We did a 50% water change two days in a row (which, based on some other reading on this forum, should go a long way in clearing out any gunk that might be in her water without crashing the cycle). Hopefully she'll be back in the tank by tomorrow

She was well-fed up until this point, and so far it's been about two weeks since she last ate (two pellets). She is still swollen and is still not defecating, but maybe that will change when she's less stressed

And, in any case, I do agree that, even if she won't get better, it is better for her to spend whatever time she may have left somewhere familiar. She's gotten back to being as responsive and mobile as she was before, which gives me hope

Hmm, maybe you can stop with the salt baths to ease the stress? I wouldn't be so quick to give up on her either, let her body have time to heal. Antibiotics won't work over night.

I'm not an expert about axolotls, but maybe try something less bioactive than a worm? There's a product called garlic guard which is basically just garlic oil, it is an attractant (as well as a great source of vitamins) for all aquatic species and it's used to help get sick pets to eat. I would try soaking an axie pellet in that, or better yet, if you can get your hands on some repashy (grub pie) and make it with that, I bet she would love that.

Oh and back to the salt, salt won't actually clear an internal infection as it just draws water out of her system. Thinking about it, you're probably actually constipating her with the salt baths. Basically you are slowly pickling her okay bad joke, but yea salt isn't a cure all by any means. It dehydrates her and will keep her from pooing, plus stress her slime coat and could make her shed. It won't attack any internal illness or disease in the slightest