Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFUSION!!!! :(

EEVEE84

EEVEE84

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Hi all
I've read about cycle, water changes and ammonia on the forum and I've asked people in the reptile/aquatics shop and I thought I've grasped it but the truth is I'm just more and more frustrated and confused!!!!

Started my tank up 3 weeks ago with one axolotl (I know cycling takes a long time but surely if I was doing it properly I would've seen some signs of me doing the job properly). My tank is 54L with AquaOne 101 filter with duckbill pointing to the side making some bubbles; plastic plants, big stones, bare floor and a hide out.

At first I was changing about 20-30% water every day adding friendly bacteria and using dechlorinated water every time. My axie eats well and looks ok and happy. Water temp is usually 18C to 20C.

I kept changing the water daily with syphon not only to change it but also to get rid of the poops. Every time I added friendly bacteria and I've cleaned my filter sponge once by gently squeezing it in tank water (once during 3 weeks of it running as didn't want to disrupt the bacteria)

water became a tad cloudy but not a lot (some people say it's ok some that it is not).

Guy at the shop said that I shouldn't change the water every day as it's pointless as every day I'm adding bacteria and every day taking them out (even tho I've explained it's a new tank). So I decided I'll b changing out 20-30% every other day. Thing is in between those days there was a lot of poop everywhere. Anyway it's been a week of me changing water every second day. Asked on forum is there an alternative to cleaning poops without using syphon and sucking the water and I've been advised to use turkey baster. I bought that and waiting now for it to be delivered and gonna start just sucking the poops and change water less frequently....or at least I thought that's the solution....

I'm checking water chemistry every day (using strips) and it seems in norm. Today I've checked it and it seems ok. Then I've used ammonia vial test kit and it showed in a range up to 1.5. ( note I've only change the water yesterday).

I've immediately did a 30-40% water change today and added friendly bacteria again.

Water does seem less cloudy than almost 2 weeks ago (or I just hope so).

I'm confused now!!!!

Do I come back to daily water changes or just use turkey baster for poops and change it every other day or once a week even and hope for the best???
Different people say different things. But I'm just so confused and don't know what to do and it seems like there is no progress in the tank cycle and I'm going round in circles :(

and I've read and heard that taking care of axolotls is very easy (maby so but u forgot to mention about taking care of tank!!!!) lol

Please help! I just want all what's best for Klaus (even tho he seems ok and has no awareness of me struggling ;) ) :(
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

Hi there,

It's true people say different things about this
If you ask me, properly starting the cycle in your tank could take very long
Without aids it can take up to 2 months before it's ready to house your axie

I also use bacteria starters, the way I did it was

Use a new filter / totally new dechlorinated water (you know just start everything fresh)
Then add the adviced amount of bacteria everyday, once a day, for 2 weeks
In those 2 weeks you change the water 30% after the first week
Then at week 2 the second 30% water change
This continues every week from here :)
Ofcourse this also requires real plants, they are a blessing for your water

Thats all actually, oficially after the second week the axies can go in, but I admit I mostly add them after 1 or 2 days because they seem way happier then in their isolation chambers :p
Never had problems :) atleast not with the water chemicals
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

I've got my axolotl in the tank and I don't want to take it out, I think Klaus was sad in the plastic box.

So do I keep on changing water every day and hope for the best or leave it for couple of days and just clean the poop? Also should I clean my filter weekly or leave it for it to mature and complete cycle? Thing is if ammonia was up to 1.5 just in 24h I see no other choice but to change water every day!!!! But I don't know whether it will keep on disrupting the cycle in making or what???? :( I'm sooooo stumped!! :(
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

I honestly don't have a clue where you got the amonia from... did you use a heavy cleaner when you first cleaned out the tank or something?
And yes you should mature your filter, once a month you can squeeze it out a bit in the water you got out of the aquarium from the waterchange
Never under the normal water tap, then all your bacteria go down the drain
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

The tank was brand new when I bought it and the ammonia comes from my axolotl I presume as it's the only live thing in there....have no clue I've got bacteria in there even tho I'm adding friendly bacteria 0_o I mean would there be much progress after 3 weeks of changing 20-40% water every day on average? Or am I just killing myself?should I stick with daily water changes? I mean it has to mature and cycle properly one day!
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

I have very little faith in bacteria in a bottle, I've used a few, and never had proper results.
What I think is going on is you were using strips to test your water, which are notoriously inaccurate. After using the liquid drip ammonia test you got a more accurate reading of your ammonia. The petstore guy is wrong, yes it doesn't make sense to dose bacteria in your tank, if you are just going to remove it with a waterchange, but if you're doing the cycle with your axolotls you need to keep ammonia below .5 ppm's.
Cloudy water is a sign of an uncycled tank, which I usually interpret as bad, there are very few circumstances when a bacterial bloom is considered "good". There may be a few instances where a bacterial bloom doesn't harm anything, but whenever my water gets cloudy, I look for the reason just to be sure, in your case I would bet it's the uncycled tank
As helpful as it is to remove poop with a turkey baster, on the scale of all things, it's probably not going to lower your ammonia significantly. Your axolotl is constantly producing ammonia, and the axolotl poop isn't going to be the sole reason for an ammonia spike. I say stick to using the siphon until the tank has cycled. Then if you want to manually remove the poo with the turkey baster have at it.
I recommend getting all liquid test kits, and doing a waterchange whenever your ammonia goes above .5 ppm's, and nitrite goes above 3 ppm's. Your tank will cycle this way, albeit more slowly, but it's how I personally would cycle a tank, because sticking them in a tupperware container is just no fun.
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

It took me approximately 5-6wks to properly cycle my tank with 2 axolotls! I cannot recommend enough the use of the API liquid water test kit! The results are a lot more accurate than using test strips. What is your nitrite levels for your tank? Generally I water changed (20%) if the nitrite levels increased above 0.5ppm and if the ammonia was rising above 0.25ppm.
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

Thanks for that! :) yes I've got strips and I've got a plastic thingy with three solutions to test my ammonia (I think it says on a pack NH4 and NH3) and today the colour test on it was in a range of 1.5 ( light green) don't know how it shows nitrate and ammonia separetly but the test strip has NH3 on it (not ammonia) and it's very light pink colour and 2 squares from 'water change' reccomendation (if that makes any sense). Water is not so cloudy and has cleared up quite a bit maby 2-3 days now (that or my glass is dirty :p )

Ok I'll stick to using syphon and daily water changes then and buy some more patience from somewhere ;)

also, spoke to a friend who's got small fish and he offered me 5 litres of his cycled and matured water to add to my tank, is that a good idea? Will it help my cycle? ( his got cold water fishies)
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

NH4 is ammonium, and NH3 is ammonia. Ammonia is what we're worried about in aquariums, as ammonium is much less toxic. Ammonium makes up 99% of what most of our test kits read as total ammonia, so make sure your test kit reads both ammonia and ammonium, otherwise a pure NH3 reading of 1.5 is pretty urgently toxic. Does your test measure both together like most tests, or only one or the other?
Water contains very little bb, but if he wanted to part with some used filter media that would definitely speed up your cycle considerably.
edit: after rereading your post I may have misread what you wrote. Not sure if you were saying your test kit read NH3 alone, or NH4 alone or both together. It most likely shows the total ammonia/ammonium reading like most test kits, if that's the case, a reading of 1.5 would not be that big of a deal.(at least compared to a reading of 1.5 ppm's of NH3 only)
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

Yes my test kit combines two of them hence my confusion regarding how much is one and how much is the other if they r both in the same plastic probe thingy . So ure saying 1.5 is not that bad? Oh thank god maby I am doing something right!!! :) Klaus seems happy anyway and doesn't look as if he's got any complaints.

So you are saying that the water from my friends tank won't kill or harm my axie but won't make too much difference? And about filter media- what do u have in mind? Like him giving me half of his sponge??? I can always exchange half of my sponge for his half :) lol worth asking anyway ;)
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

* Strips are a waste of time and money
* "good bacteria" additives are a waste of time and money
* Cycling can take 6-8 weeks or more
* Daily water changes would be almost essential IMHO in a 54 ltr tank (that is pretty small, less water, waste is less diluted)
* Water holds little bacteria, so using your freinds water wont help speed up your cycle.

So -

* Buy an API master kit (or similar drop test kit)
* Use the rest of your good bacteria stuff (you have it now, might as well use it) but don t buy any more
* Get used to daily water changes for the forseeable future :) - at least 6-8 weeks
* Leave your filter media alone, you wont be creating enough mess that you need to clean it every 3-4 weeks at this point, give it a rinse in tank water once your cycle is established

I've found the less i fiddle with my tank, the better it runs

The main ingredient you need right now is patience. Just let it do its thing, hurry up and wait.

Bren
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

Straight and to the point! Thank you! :)

what about my friend's half a sponge and water? Worth trying?
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

So long as he hasn't added any new additions to the tank, and they've all been healthy for a while, I don't see why not trying it. if you can just stick his sponge piece in your bio media compartment of your filter, and hopefully it'll speed up the cycle.
A total ammonia reading of 1.5 isn't great, I'd shoot for .5 ppm's or less. At first I thought you meant it was just reading the NH3, and then you'd have a problem.
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

EEVEE84 said:
Straight and to the point! Thank you! :)

what about my friend's half a sponge and water? Worth trying?
Click to expand...

Did you miss the bit about patience?

;)

Yes, stealing a bit of bacteria seeded filter media will help establish your own bacteria colony, however be warned - it will also introduce anything and everything else that is in your freinds tank , good and / or bad.

There is no need at all to "introduce" bacteria into your system, be it in a bottle or borrowed filter media. The bacteria that breaks down ammonia occurs naturally, and will appear as soon as ammonia does. As do the bacterias that breakdown nitrites etc etc So all you need to do to start a cycle is introduce an ammonia source (a pooing and peeing axie for example)

Tank furniture, filter media, bottled bacteria etc etc will introduce bacteria for sure, but it will happen without any assistance just fine. Regardless of what you do it is almost impossible to "speed up" the cycling process

I have set up "instantly cycled" tanks before, but i ran the "new" filter on an old tank for about 2 months, then swapped it to the new tank on the day of set up. So really, it was an overnight success, it just took 2 months to be an overnight success.

All you need is time & patience........

Did i mention patience? Oh, and time.

Bren
 
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Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

Blackdog said most of what I would have advised :D Good show.

The cloudy water that you saw was most likely a bacteria bloom. It is normal in a tank that is cycling. The main thing right now, since you have an animal in your system is to keep the ammonia levels down (but present) so that the animal isn't stressed, but your cycle is being fed.

It sounds like you are on the right track with daily water changes, though even the bidaily wouldn't be so bad. At this point you should be in a declining ammonia phase anyways and into a bit of a nitrite spike.

Also, remember that there are many ways to do something right and many ways to do something wrong. Just go with what makes sense to you.
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

Patience...I'm starting to lack in this department ;). Thanks all for your help :) my plan is as follows:
- change water daily until my back gives in, I'll get drunk on axolotl water or till the cycle completes ;)
- thank my friend nicely unless he proves that his fish r healthy and then nibble on his sponge
- get some more patience
- get API master kit (I'm using other brand of drip-with-plastic-container-and-3-solutions-thingy for ammonia and nitrate(or nitrite 0_o) combined
- don't panic
- enjoy every moment of it! :)

oh one more thing? How much water should I change daily? Or will I have to test it every day and then decide?? 0_o sorry I'm such a knob! Lol
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

I'd start with a 20% change, but just shoot for .5 ppm's or less on ammonia. if 20% keeps it nice and low, stay with it, if you think you can get away with less, go for less. Just keep an eye on the ammonia and make sure it doesn't get too high
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

I managed a really quick cycle this last time, which I think was partly down to getting some sand from a friend's existing tank, but it does always have an element of luck. I wouldn't have done it if that friend didn't have some impressive aquarist credentials, though, as blackdog is totally right about you getting everything from the other tank, good and bad. Definitely agree with the patience, API kit, and daily testing recs. Good luck!
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

EEVEE84 said:
Patience...I'm starting to lack in this department ;). Thanks all for your help :) my plan is as follows:
- change water daily until my back gives in, I'll get drunk on axolotl water or till the cycle completes ;)
- thank my friend nicely unless he proves that his fish r healthy and then nibble on his sponge
- get some more patience
- get API master kit (I'm using other brand of drip-with-plastic-container-and-3-solutions-thingy for ammonia and nitrate(or nitrite 0_o) combined
- don't panic
- enjoy every moment of it! :)

oh one more thing? How much water should I change daily? Or will I have to test it every day and then decide?? 0_o sorry I'm such a knob! Lol
Click to expand...


yuuuuummmm... axie water!
Sounds like you have things under control and a good plan here. I will say that you are not a knob lol. You are someone that cares about the well being of your pets, which is a wonderful thing.
 
Re: Ammonia, water change, cycle CONFIUSION!!!! :(

Lol :) thanks again guys! U brought peace to my mind....for now ;)
 
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