Breeding female axolotls under 18 months

[xxianxx]

According to the care sheets on this site it is inadvisable to breed female axolotls before 18 months ( Axolotls - Breeding Axolotls Successfully ) as it may cause health problems. I have had a number of females breed before a year of age and have observed no problems, once a tank full of nine month old ones who were triggered by a storm and four or five layed. Also four of my existing females , now over five years old, bred around a year old , again I observed no problems.
I posted this topic on my face book group (axolotl care), a number of respected breeders posted that this was not correct as far as they were concerned as they had observed no issues with breeding young females. I was actually removed from another Facebook group for posting about this as apparently a female bred before 18 months is doomed. I would like to see how many people have encountered problems with female axolotls breeding under a year of age.

 

[keiko]

Many sources say that an axie is fully grown at 18 months and I guess that's why they also say that you shouldn't breed them until that age. I do agree that it would be best not to breed them until they're fully grown, but most axies that I've seen are fully grown long before that. As long as they're not growing anymore and are healthy I don't think there's any age limit to breeding axies. I bred my big female when she was right about 1 yo and so far haven't had any problems with her. She also recovered from the breeding/laying very quickly.

 

[rachelkaedy]

The post was generated by a guy who calls himself Ian and Pete who was blocked from a facebook group due to abuse and advising newbies to breed females from 9 months. Breeding takes alot of work and time in raising axolotls. Therefore I recommended to breed for 18 mths. Plus at this age the female is at a size to cope with laying eggs.

 

[auntiejude]

I have females breed at 10, 12, 18 months and 2.5 years. Ironically the one who bred first at 2.5 years died, but possibly not as a direct result of breeding, the younger ones were fine.

So no, I don't believe breeding under 18 months is a problem for most females. I would say condition and size are much more important than age.

 

[Bette]

I do also agree that condition and size are the most important factors. That being said, I try to delay breeding my females until they are approx. 15 months.

 

[rachelkaedy]

Jude Davis you know the person who started the thread and hes asked you to comment as for correcting my knowledge peter ian w.e your name is I have no idea what your talking about but carry on its amusing. If you want to recommend new owners with axys to breed females from 9 mths of age carry on. Creating Fake profiles on Facebook to Join our group and abuse people seriously grow up. I couldnt care a less what you both think people who know me know the type of person I am. 18 mths is best age for females.

 

[Bellabelloo]

Please keep your comments from getting personal.
This thread is seeking opinions only.

 

[xxianxx]

Rachel I'm merely asking for information and opinions about this subject, please don't think I'm attacking you, I am merely questioning the belief that breeding of female axolotls under eighteen months is detrimental to their health. If you had taken the time to read the appropriate thread in my Facebook group (axolotl care) you would see a group of very experienced keepers, including Patrick Steinberger a person who's opinion I know you respect, stating that this belief is considered to be incorrect.
Just to clarify a couple of points, I have not recommended any particular age to breed female axolotls, I recounted a story of how a group of my stock axolotls ( I breed them commercially BTW) had bred at nine months, I generally don't keep them this long but I had raised 600 wildtypes and it took ages to sell that morph. It wasn't planned, they were sexually mature and a storm triggered them to breed, they showed no I'll effects post breeding and I still have a couple of the females. My personal preference for breeding females is to get them nice and big so they give a better egg yield, I don't concern myself with age, as long as they hit 9-10" and are in good body shape they get a male in the tank, its then up to them if they want to breed.
My second point concerns the nature of Facebook. If you check the mods in this group you will see a group of professional people experienced in amphibian care. On Facebook the same is not true, any clueless clown can start a group and impress inexperienced keepers with their encyclopaedic knowledge. When they are challenged about their erroneous statements they start banning people, I have been banned from a few axolotl groups for this reason on my main account (Ian) which is why I use second accounts (Pete amongst others).
If anybody has anything to add on this topic please do so.

 

[Coastal Groovin]

I find most of these so called experts on facebook to be complete idiots, that are nothing more than Oh my axolotl is cute and look he is smiling at me people. They don't have a clue. They read some care sheets and repeat them over and over. They have very little experience. Here's some info for them. I can train a monkey to breed axolotls they are so easy. If you axolotl is healthy it doesn't matter how old they are when they breed.

 

[auntiejude]

Rachelkaedy, no-one asked me to comment here. I commented with my experience and opinion, thats all.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - if you prefer to wait until your females are 18 months thats fine - it's your choice. I'll breed my females when I believe they are in the right condition and a suitable size. If anyone asked me put an age on a minimum to breed I would say 12 months rather than 18, and a minimum size of 8".

 

[rachelkaedy]

advising new people to breed a female axolotl from 6-9 mths is wrong. On our group anyway we advise to breed from 18 mths this gives them time to learn and research before breeding as in most cases it their 1st axolotls. Size factors of a female were not mentioned at all and was confusing information to a newbie.

 

[tammyaxie]

Can we come to the conclusion that there is probably no cut and dry method or restriction? We cannot control when they breed outside of captivity...... I have two juvies that aren't sexed yet. They will be living together for life if I can help it. If they have opposing genders then, "oh well". Nature shall take it's course.

 

[mewsie]

advising new people to breed a female axolotl from 6-9 mths is wrong. On our group anyway we advise to breed from 18 mths this gives them time to learn and research before breeding as in most cases it their 1st axolotls.

This is an excellent point.

Kept together, axolotls will do what nature has them do. However, a new keeper may need benefit from more time before they have the optimum husbandry habits and the healthiest axolotls.

A healthy female in a healthy habitat is in a better position to remain so if the keeper is experienced. An experienced keeper will be a better judge on the condition of their animals, and generally more prepared to do whatever it takes to keep them well.

The young will also have a better chance of survival, and of finding new homes when the owner is established and experienced.

 

[rachelkaedy]

This is an excellent point.

Kept together, axolotls will do what nature has them do. However, a new keeper may need benefit from more time before they have the optimum husbandry habits and the healthiest axolotls.

A healthy female in a healthy habitat is in a better position to remain so if the keeper is experienced. An experienced keeper will be a better judge on the condition of their animals, and generally more prepared to do whatever it takes to keep them well.

The young will also have a better chance of survival, and of finding new homes when the owner is established and experienced.

Exactly which is why on our group we advise 18 months :-D

 

[mewsie]

Exactly which is why on our group we advise 18 months :-D

I think the issue is that unless otherwise the message is clear and well reasoned you end up with "but HE said...", "yeah but SHEEE said" and you go round and round in circles.

Making a blanket statement that axolotls should not be bred until they are 18 months conflicts with the experiences of established keepers who are confident that younger females are perfectly fine to breed... unless you back it up with the reasoning above.

Anyway - It sounds like this thread has a 'history' and source beyond itself that I am not party to so I'll shut up now

 

[Coastal Groovin]

So the only reason not to breed an axolotl under 18 month is because the human may not be experienced enough? Nothing to do with it somehow hurting or killing the axolotl? I'd like to see someone tell a person that they are not experienced enough to breed their axolotls. Then should go over well. Like I said a monkey can be trained to do it.

 

[xxianxx]

I contacted the sites founder on Facebook for a response on this topic and it was

"You can quote me: age at breeding is not as important as size/stage of growth. A very well fed axolotl can reach adult size and appear to all intents and purposes to have stopped growing in just 6-8 months. If it reaches true adult size, I wouldn't have a problem breeding it. The time period I wrote on the site was to ensure people who didn't raise their axolotl fast wouldn't try to breed a still-growing animal."

It appears that the overwhelming response from genuinely experienced keepers is that size is more important than age. I'm not disputing the fact that some axolotls may die after breeding, whether this is directly attributable to breeding is debatable. When breeding any animal it is important that they are in good health for obvious reasons.

 

[Corissa]

I have females breed at 10, 12, 18 months and 2.5 years. Ironically the one who bred first at 2.5 years died, but possibly not as a direct result of breeding, the younger ones were fine.

So no, I don't believe breeding under 18 months is a problem for most females. I would say condition and size are much more important than age.

 

[Corissa]

What size would you recommend females breeding at?

 

[xxianxx]

What size would you recommend females breeding at?

Personally i would wait until they have finished their growth spurt. Axolotl will grow throughout their lives but the bulk of the growth is within the first year, if you are breeding a female before they have finished growing it may retard their growth. It is physically expensive for a female to generate eggs, then replace them once they are laid so its probably advisable to wait till they have finished their initial growth spurt. Female axolotl can lay from 8 months and males can breed from 6 months but there is no need to rush them, there is no evidence to prove that early laying can be detrimental to an axolotls health but its best to delay breeding just in case there are any possible long term problems. These animals are our pets so best act on the cautious side.