Can you stop metamorphosis?

[LSuzuki]

Help. I am pretty sure something has triggered metamorphosis in 2 out of 4 near-adult size axolotls. I want to figure out what probably triggered it and stop it.

Sorry - no pictures, but I'll try to figure out my camera and post later.

Water parameters are fine EXCEPT for high pH (8.2-8.4). Temp stays below 70 F (21 C). Sand substrate (CaribSea Super Naturals). Sponge filters. 25% water change weekly (more often since this started) with dechlorinated water. Decorations were clay pots. (I removed them so I could make sure I could clean up uneaten food.)

I've been feeding them salmon pellets and occasional worms as a treat.

This started 4 weeks ago. All of a sudden, none of them were eating as they had been, with one not eating at all and another seldom eating. Those two now have very narrowed tail crests and their back crests are practically gone. Their gills seem smaller too.

Once change to the tank set-up was made about the time this started - I added additional aeration, which may have increased the pH slightly (by driving off more CO2).

One strange incident that happened as this started, which I now think was just a coincidence, was that I bought the "wrong" kind of worms (red wigglers, Eisenia fetida). The first day, they ate them, but the second day, they started spitting them out. I figured that they just needed time to get used to the flavor and withheld their pellets for a few days, but they never took to the worms. But after this, none of them were eating much of anything, whereas before this they would be nipping at my hand whenever I had my hand in the tank. Now, the ones that are looking normal will eat if I feed them by hand, but aren't interested in food in their feeding bowl. One of the others will eat the occasional pellet (but not worms) by hand and the other isn't eating.

Since the only thing I know is wrong is the pH, I am going to buffer it to 7.5 and hope that helps.

2 weeks ago I first noticed that axy that isn't eating had a much narrower crest, but wasn't sure if I just hadn't noticed before. Today, after I realized the symptoms could be metamorphosis, I checked and the other one that is hardly eating also has a narrowed crest.

I did bring the non-eating one to the vet, but they need a stool sample to check for parasites. However, I don't think this vet has axolotl experience, and he didn't mention metamorphosis.

Does anyone have suggestions on halting/reversing metamorphosis (if that is what this is) or other possible causes that can be checked for?

Thank you,

Laura

 

[Bette]

hi Laura,
I don't know if your axies are going through metamorphosis. Good pictures would surely help. I don't advise that you use a ph buffer. I know that your ph is on the higher side, but I am not aware of this being a problem... consistency in ph is the most important thing.

It sounds like you are doing everything right. Keep up on water changes like you are. I think that you should put the flower pot caves back in for their comfort.
There is a slight possibility that the worms were contaminated. Where were they obtained?
Just out of curiosity, what water conditioner do you use?
I hope that your axolotls improve soon!:happy:

 

[Bette]

I forgot to mention that you could try lowering the temperature by using a good fan over the tank. I use screen lids on my axie tanks, and then when needed, I lay small fans on top. 65 - 68 degrees would be a good temp to aim for.

 

[LSuzuki]

Thank you, Bette!

Question: is there anything in pH buffers that are bad for axolotls, or is it just the generally-true rule of thumb that pH stability is more important and it is hard to change high-pH water?

The worms were bought at a local Petsmart. (I had been buying Eisenia Hortensis from Walmart bait section, but I happened to be at Petsmart so bought what they had, which didn't include the Latin name, so I didn't realize they were the stinky kind.)

The temp probably runs around 66-68 F in the tank (it is fan cooled). I have two thermometers ... one says 66, the other 72. I am pretty sure the 66 one is closer to correct, since the bottom of the thermometer seems better centered in the gauge. The tank is insulated on the bottom and about 1/2 of the sides to help reduce heat gain from the room.

The tank only gets indirect light from a fish tank in the room and a basement window, so it is pretty dark in the tank unless we turn on the room lights. They don't seem to be bothered by the hides being out of there and aren't acting startled when the lights come on.

I'm sort-of hoping the vet finds a parasite or something. Then at least I will feel like it is not my fault.

 

[Bette]

Thank you, Bette!

Question: is there anything in pH buffers that are bad for axolotls, or is it just the generally-true rule of thumb that pH stability is more important and it is hard to change high-pH water?

The worms were bought at a local Petsmart. (I had been buying Eisenia Hortensis from Walmart bait section, but I happened to be at Petsmart so bought what they had, which didn't include the Latin name, so I didn't realize they were the stinky kind.)

The temp probably runs around 66-68 F in the tank (it is fan cooled). I have two thermometers ... one says 66, the other 72. I am pretty sure the 66 one is closer to correct, since the bottom of the thermometer seems better centered in the gauge. The tank is insulated on the bottom and about 1/2 of the sides to help reduce heat gain from the room.

The tank only gets indirect light from a fish tank in the room and a basement window, so it is pretty dark in the tank unless we turn on the room lights. They don't seem to be bothered by the hides being out of there and aren't acting startled when the lights come on.

I'm sort-of hoping the vet finds a parasite or something. Then at least I will feel like it is not my fault.

Make sure that you are definitely keeping up with ammonia testing, because a high PH will cause the ammonia to become even more toxic.
To quote Axolotl.org, "the higher the pH, the more toxic the ammonia. Ammonia can kill, and at a pH of 8 or more, it kills even more effectively. Water temperature can also affect its toxicity, a higher temperature resulting in a higher toxicity. Unless you're extremely proficient with maintaining aquarium systems, a periodic ammonia test is advisable. Even the most experienced hobbyist should occasionally test for ammonia".

It sounds like you are ok in the temp department! Thank you for explaining that

As far as the ph buffers go... I haven't yet found solid evidence that the buffers can harm axolotls. But I prefer not to use them, just to be safe. And yes, ph stability is usually more important than trying to change the ph. Unless of course the ph was drastically low or high. Perhaps others would like to comment on this point as well, if they have more knowledge of this...

 

[HitmanSougo13]

You need to post for sure about this. Either your axies are all getting sick or you possibly have a batch of axies genetically capable of metamorphism.

 

[LSuzuki]

The stool sample came back positive for parasites. Yay, I hope? That means "treatable", right? I have a follow-up tomorrow at the vet.

Is there a good list of treatments that aren't safe for axolotls? Since this isn't my usual vet, I don't have confidence in him yet, and would rather verify things before risking making them worse.

I haven't been feeding them any live food except earth worms. Are there any known parasites that come with earth worms? Perhaps one of the axies arrived here with parasites, but the start of all of this seemed so abrupt, and they'd all been here for months.

 

[keiko]

Here are listed at least some safe and unsafe medications: Axolotls - Health & Diseases. There is also a little something about parasites.

 

[Bette]

Please let us know what the vet says, and could you still post a few photos?

 

[LSuzuki]

Diagnosis: Cilia protozoan infection, with secondary bacterial infection.
Treatment: Flagyl for the protozoa, vibramycin for the infection, both orally. This won't be fun.

I need to bring the other 3 big axies in tomorrow to get them weighed so they can get their prescriptions. Hopefully, it hasn't spread to the tank with little axies. I brought in a stool sample today.

On the good new side, 1) I was wrong about them metamorphosing, 2) their problem is treatable, 3) I've found a vet in the local area that really seems to like and be knowledgeable about amphibians, 4) I've found possible homes for some of the little axolotls via the staff at the vet's office.

Thank you all for the advice and I'll let you know what happens.

 

[LSuzuki]

Oh, one more bit of info ... the vet said he has seen cilia infections from earthworms before. Right before this had all started, I bought worms from a different place than usual, and I also had fed them some dug-from-the-garden worms right before that. So, the source of the problem might have been a badly infected worm.

(When I was digging worms, I had rejected some that looked "sick", but I have no idea if they were really "sick worms" or not.)

 

[Bette]

Thank you for the update Laura! I hope they improve after treatment. What you mentioned about the cilia infection possibly linked to feeding live worms is interesting and worrisome.
I think it's beneficial to feed earthworms, despite the risk. But it would be good if this could be studied more. And I suppose it's possible that there could have been a different vector.
Best of luck! And yes, please let us know how it goes.

 

[Mark]

This is really interesting, especially as most caudate keepers feed earthworms as a staple diet and we’ve seen very few reports here of protozoan infections. I suppose few people actually obtain a professional diagnosis as you’ve done.

Some ciliate protozoa have been linked with mortality in salamanders although most protozoa are generally harmless. A build up of protozoa might indicate weakness, possibly due to a separate condition. Treatments are usually aimed at fixing the primary problem rather than eliminating the protozoa.

Perhaps you got very unlucky by introducing a nasty ciliate or perhaps your animals have an underlying problem which made them more susceptible to a parasitic build up. Either way, the timings suggest the worms have something to do with it.

Good luck and let us know what the outcome is.

 

[LSuzuki]

More good news: 1) The axie that started treatment yesterday is already eating much better. 2) The other axolotl tank (with 13 young axolotls) is not infected.

Bad news - 14 more days of giving oral medication to 4 axolotls that really, really, really disapprove of the process. Beats the alternative of sick axolotls and lots of worrying, though.

Given how many people feed earthworms to axolotls with no problems whatsoever, it is probably pretty rare to get an infection from them. If the worms were the cause, I hope it was the ones I dug from the garden, not the ones I bought, since I'd hate to have other pet owners going through the same thing.

 

[LSuzuki]

Follow up - all 4 adult axolotls seem to have recovered following their course of antibiotics and metronidazole. They are all eating well and are acceptably plump again. The crests have filled out again on the ones whose crests had shrunk, so I think that the shrinkage was probably just because of weight.

Now, I am having to teach them to look around for their food again. Several weeks of hand-feeding has spoiled them. When they are hungry they look to the sky and wait for me to drop food within snapping distance ...

 

[Bette]

Yay! Good news!