Catfish + Axolotls = Argh?

In all the books fish/ aquarium I have is is considered a loach not a catfish (and I have a few books).
 
*Taxonomy diversion*

Chinese algae eaters are Chinese algae eaters; they have their own family within the order Cypriniformes, as Azhael mentioned. Cypriniformes contains the following families:

Balitoriidae- hillstream loaches
Catostomidae- suckers
Cobitidae- typical loaches
Cyprinidae- minnows, carps, barbs, danios, etc. Also includes Siamese algae eaters.
Gyrinocheilidae- Chinese algae eaters

Gyrinocheilids are more closely related to suckers than to the two loach families. Another fish misnamed a "loach" in the aquarium trade is Myxocyprinus asiaticus, the Chinese sucker, variously called "Chinese high fin banded shark" or "Chinese high fin loach" or variations thereon. It is a sucker, not a loach and certainly not a shark.

*Back on topic*

If you want a fish that is peaceful, eats algae, and does well in typical axolotl aquarium conditions, you need look no further than the humble rosy red. It will not clear up a severe algae problem, but if you have a severe algae problem you need to treat the underlying causes. Unlike Otocinclus cats, rosy reds have no spines.

Rosies will not live on algae alone, you must feed them flake food as well. Of course you should always quarantine new arrivals, but this is especially important with "feeder" fish as they are more mistreated than other fish and are therefore more prone to have opportunistic infections.
 
Hello, Frau Ignorant here... what is a rosy red?

Thanks,

-Eva
 
Rosy reds are an amelanistic color morph of the fathead minnow, Pimephales notatus. They are a standard feeder fish here in the US and can be bought from any pet store for a few cents apiece. I don't know how readily available they are in Europe. The common minnow (Phoxinus phoxinus) might be a good substitute; I have not kept it but from what I have read of its biology and temperament (and seen in its American congeners) it seems very similar to P. notatus.
 
I'm new to axolotls, but I've been doing the freshwater fish thing for decades, so I thought I'd jump in with my two cents. I know a lot of this is covered in the caudata culture fish compatability page, but I feel like I'm throwing a couple of other ideas in the mix, so I thought I would go ahead and post a reply:

The picture that began this thread is definitely a CAE, and it is not a good choice (someone already mentioned their aggression): http://www.fishlore.com/profile-chinesealgaeeater.htm

The mainpage of fishlore has decent profiles of many algae eating fish, and a lot of threads on algae prevention. Things to consider: (1) armored cats = could get stuck in mouth. (2) suckermouths = likely to try to "scrape" any surface that will be still long enough, including amphbians, unless they're very well fed. (If you're making sure they're well fed, they might not have enough appetite left for the algae they're intended to eat.) (3) Temp will be an issue. If the temp's right for the axolotl, it will not be warm enough for the algae-eating cats that are common in the pet trade. (The lowest temp on an otto's range is 70; while ottos are peaceful and small enough, you need ~3 per 10 gallons for them to do the job. Also, they're difficult to acclimate to ANY tank successfully, most are wild caught, and any bottom dweller would probably be very easy axolotl snax.)

I'd second the vote for shrimp, especially if your lfs sells ghost shrimp cheaply, or if you breed your own red cherry shrimp (which I've contemplated doing as feeders/tank cleaners, as it's supposedly easy to do). Japonica shrimp are known as the best algae eating shrimp, but I don't know their temp needs off the top of my head.

Non-catfish fish: Some Plattys can overlap the higher end of an axolotl's temp range (68-72 should be fine for verigated platties, but swordtail plattys need tropical temps), and they do nibble algae. Also, since plattys are live bearers, they might reproduce more quickly than the rate at which they're eaten, leaving you with cheap replacements. Same goes for fancy guppies, except they're usually slow and clumsy because of their tails, so they'd probably be picked off much more quickly.

I'm a fan of feeder guppies, myself. They're less inbred than most fancys, and can stand cooler temps, and they move quickly. They'll definitely have ich when you buy them, so assume you have to treat that during quarantine, and expect 25-50% of your purchase to die off in the first week. (Ich meds are toxic to amphibians, so, once treatment is done, perform regular water changes, so it's definitely long gone from their systems before inclusion in an axolotl tank. Better safe than sorry.) The ones that make it through the remainder of quarantine will usually be pretty hearty. Give them a long quarantine and thorough visual inspection, though, because they really are in bad condition in pet stores. I would say the same of rosy minnows.

White cloud minnows rock and breed readily, but I haven't known them to nibble too much algae.

Don't forget that good ol' harmless pondsnails/small ramshorns will relish algae. There are other species that eat algae as well, but I seem to recall a thread about a newt getting its head stuck in a trapdoor, so that rules out most of the larger, freshwater snails.

One other thing that I want to say, and I hope is not taken the wrong way: if you don't already keep fish, it might not be a good idea to add them to an amphibian's tank. I simply mean that, if you already keep fish, you know what to look for as a sign of illness, and you know what to do to prevent illness, both of which means they're less likely to become ill and make other animals ill. If these things are brand new to you, then the odds of problems arising go up. It's just something to consider.

... and of course, don't forget all the warnings that are on the caudata culture pages Re: species mixing and fish compatability. The safest route would probably be to invest in a manual algae-scrubbin' pad.
 
Thanks all for your input on this one, and the taxonomy debate too!
It looks like the general consensus confirms my original thoughts on the matter (any kind of fish + axies = bad news) and the best solution is to get off my lazy backside and clean the fuzz off the driftwood myself.
 
Jadore axolotl said:
A clown loach can grow up to a foot in length (although very seldom) so where you got 4 inches from I have no idea. The Pakistani loach (yoyo loach) can grow to 6 inches but needs alot of hides and should be kept in a group and as should the clown loaches of three or more. Also both of these species have barbels unlike the CAE and so are not suitable for axies as if they tried to swallow them they may get hurt.
Click to expand...

Really? :eek:

I might consider setting up a big loach tank because mine grew 4" in 4 yrs and same with pakistani loaches.
 
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to drop a line from somone who actually has CAE in with their axies. So Far, no trouble.. They don't have spikes (we had three eaten by our axolotls). Axies WILL CATCH them... Nothing's safe with axies, even inanimate objects. We have seen our guts pluck snails that we accidently got when intoducing one of the plants.

One of two 10 cm long CAE seems to be missing.... And one of the axies looking suspiciously full. Not fast enough, so far no digestion problems.

They don't seem to scared of axies though. Which is why I had to save one of them recently from our golden albino. He had it half way in,- the fish got a small bruise in the end. And now that fish is missing.

My experience: they are a tasty snack for a 15cm long axie. We have a 260L tank, so I there's probably enough room for everyone.

But this link here states that as they grow they may attach themselves to other fish and damage scales:

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?...ter+catfish&gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&sa=N&start=18

Angie.
 
Oh, just an update to my earlier message on this thread,

All 5 CAE we had died because of our axies (specifically our male). The sizes were: 2 x 10 cm and 3 x 7 cm. Two of them he just had "bitten" as I managed to get the fish out of this mouth. The other three got devoured. Axolotl teeth & jaw grip seem to bruise the badly.... At this stage I am starting to think maybe I should have let him eat those fish. Died anyway.
 
To misquote a popular kids' film: Fish are food, not friends. ;)

-Eva
 
So are apparently plant leaves, surrounding ornaments, owner's hand, gravel under feet (no matter the size & quantity), thermometers and snails...

Gravel is especially worth checking every so often in case it changed taste to something better.

O_O
 
Wouldnt there be a temperature issue anyway with the fish liking it warmer than the Axies tolerate?
 
Uhmm, I know that our CAE had no problem with it whatsoever. Water sits at 18 C on average ( we actually thought it was higher becasue of these magnetic thermometers, but were advised to buy one of the simple glass ones).
 
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