Question: Could I have your opinions on this please?

[Petersgirl]

Hey guys,

I'm new here and am so happy to see a site dedicated to these little guys, and everyone seems so enthusiastic and affectionate about their axies. It's great to see!

So, the background. I've read quite a lot of info on the axolotl but am still learning how to apply all the knowledge, so please be a little patient if I miss out obvious bits.

We got Toothless, our female melanoid axolotl, about four days ago. She looks about 3 months old judging by her length. My Dad saw me looking at her in a shop and the next thing I knew, she was at home in our tank. I was really concerned because, obviously, axolotls are not fish, so I got researching to find out how to make her comfortable as I didn't want her to get ill or be stressed. I bonded with her from the first moment. She recognizes my face and comes to the front of the tank all the time to say hello.

But I'm really concerned about her living space and want to know what you guys think of me moving her. So far, she has one full side with small gills, complete with fronds. On the other, she has one smaller gill with fronds, no middle gill, and the top one is completely bare of fronds. I honestly don't remember if she came to us this way or not. The Shop we got her from had her in a gravel-bottomed tank with fancy goldfish, and bright lights inside (I now know this is a no-no) so I don't know whether one of the fancies nibbled her fronds off before we got her.

She currently lives in a roomy 10 Gallon tank. However, her gills are bending forwards (which from what I've read indicates stress from water currents; she has a filter and an air bar in the tank with her). She also lives with 2 small algae eaters and around 6 fancy goldfish. At first, they would come too close and she would try to Hoover them. After this she stopped, although she still chases the algae eaters. I am not sure whether they could be nibbling her fronds or not as I'm not with her 24/7, but I've looked at photos of gill infection and they don't look quite right. Her fronds are missing and there appear to be tiny bits of white on her gills which I am a bit worried are bones - they don't look like fungus or molting (correct me if this sounds daft; I am a relative newbie so I will get things wrong). I know she should ideally be on her own, and the tank light is left on most of the day. I'm not sure what kind of light it is, but it's not fluorescent. I've read this could also stress her out as she's nocturnal and she has no eyelids. She does have a large ornament to sleep in but for some reason she barely uses it. The substrate of the tank is also a no-no; they're small, colourful pebbles (not really gravel) but they're still much smaller than her head and I have seen her inadvertently Hoovering them when I feed her bloodworm. The other concern is the Bloodworm. I feed her a cube daily (I know adults get fed every other day but there is good reason) but the fish always tear it to bits before she gets a look in, so she ends up hoovering bits off the floor, which worries me because she might not be eating enough, and, of course,there's the pebbles to consider.

Phew! Now, my Dad claims he bought her for Mum, but Mum really doesn't have any interest in her. I've really bonded with her and am worried about how stressed she is. I want to move her to another tank. Now, this tank is much smaller - around a foot. Would this suit her while she is still small? She would fit with bags of room now, but obviously I would get a bigger tank if she outgrows it. I could also get her some decent sand to get some footing on, no gravel of course, and I'd be making sure she got ALL of her food (I tried feeding her with sugar tongs but the bloodworm just fell apart). There also wouldn't be any fish in there, or a heater, as I know Axies like it nice and cool. I'll also provide a hidey hole for her. I just want to know...

1) What is the best filter to make sure her water is clean but not so strong that it stresses her? Would you recommend an air bar?
2) Is it okay to leave the tank light off all the time if I think it'll just stress her out having it on? I have no real plants in the tank.
3) How can I make it as stressless as possible for her? Do I float her in a baggie to get used to the new water first, for example?
4) Is it okay to put my tank near a window if it's not facing it directly and if I cover it during the day? I'm having trouble getting the tank near a powerpoint (plug socket) to power the filter. I know daylight isn't ideal and I have to watch the temp, but I want to make sure her water is clean too.
5) Is this going to be better for her than being in the tank she's currently in? I've had to really fight with my parents to tell them why she needs to be moved and why I should take care of her (not being rude, but they genuinely believe she's just like a fish and doesn't have any special needs. They basically think I'm being a worrywart and there's nothing wrong with her). I don't want to stress her out more than I have to, but the state of her gills, and the fact she finds it a little hard to settle is really worrying me, as well as the pebbles in the tank.

Sorry for the ridiculously long post, I just wanted to make sure all the details were clear. I'm also sorry for my incredible lack of knowledge, but I really want to learn as axolotls have earned a special place in my heart. Toothless just makes me smile whenever I see her, and I don't want her to be in pain or stressed. Thank you for even reading this far. If you reply, merci beaucoup!

 

[elfelty]

I think it's a good idea to get the little thing into it's own tank! You sound like you've done some great research and really care for the little bugger. If you're only using a little tank you don't even need a filter, just be prepared to clean out the waste and do regular water changes. It's gills should be back to full and fluffy if it gets a nice clean, calm and cool environment to itself

 

[EJgraydon]

I think you should move her, and I feel if you go through and read your post you'll feel the same.
As for your questions:
1) I use a Hang-On Back filter. I have a house hold spong rubber banded to it so the when the waterfalls it lands on the sponge, completely breaking the current. Alot of people use air bars as well, agaisnt the back of their tanks. If you use one, I'd wait till Toothless starts looking better, then monitor her.

2) Absolutely! I don't even use a light with my tank. Axxies love the dark, plus it keeps the water cooler (if you use a filament bulb, which I suspect yours is)

3) Maybe use a glass bowl or tupperware container to float her in? To be honest with you, when my fiance got me my Charmander, she didn't know about floating, but naturally left him in his breather bag in the water for 30 minutes before putting him in the tank.

4) I, personally, wouldn't put it in direct sunlight. It can cause a rise and fall in temp, and plus axxies aren't big fans of bright light. But if you keep the window covered it wouldn't be much of an issue.

5) Absolutely. I think you should get a container to put the axxie in when you transfer her, making it easier on her. Also, I love how much of an emotional choice this is for you, it truly shows that you care for Toothless and want the best for her.

Good luck

 

[Petersgirl]

Thank you so much! I just wanted to make sure moving her didn't make her worse. The poor thing looks really stressed.That basically means I can set up tomorrow when I get home, once the tank's scrubbed and I've treated the water. That's fantastic! I just need to fit in the 20% water changes every few days

 

[Petersgirl]

BTW, EJ, that sponge + filter idea is really clever! I'll think about using it when I get a filter. I'm trawling for one now. For the moment I can do water changes until she's better. Thanks for your advice, to both of you. It really helps to feel you've got someone who knows telling you it's okay to go through with your ideas.

 

[wandering]

it needs a tank of its own right now.
Goldfish and plecs are likely to damage it, quite possibly resulting in its death.
You could keep it in your smaller tank without a filter, air stone or light for now. But you must do a large water change each day or every other day and remove all poop and uneaten food soon after feeding. I have four small tanks set up like this. Mine each have a hide and a clump of Java moss and a piece of wood on top to shade and make sure they can't jump out, and a bare base so its easier to clean. You could set up a bigger tank with your filter and sand later and get it cycled properly before your axolotl goes in. you can 'seed' your filter from the Goldfish's filter.
And it would be better to feed it chopped earthworms as soon as you can. Bit of a grisly job cutting them up, though! Bloodworms are lacking in some necessary nutrients. Having said that, mine were on bloodworm to around 3 to 4 inches. You can also get axolotl pellets on eBay for young axolotls.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Petersgirl]

Thanks Wandering! Toothless is on Bloodworm at this moment, as I've yet to find a good Earthworm supplier (I don't want to use wild ones as I've been warned they might harbour parasites, etc). It also seems, out of all the foods I've looked at, Bloodworm is one of the most easily attainable and nutritious - I will look into Earthworms too, as she needs a bit of variety in her diet, and it seems they're also a very good option.

I'm thinking of keeping her in the smaller tank for a bit, just while I obtain the bells and whistles for her to have a decent setup (waiting for payday!) I'll definitely be cleaning up after her after each meal and will look into pellets as well - preferably soft ones, as for some reason a few axxie owners have said they're more palatable, and I definetely want her eating more. She doesn't look emaciated, just weedy.

I will definitely need a lid under the tank's outer lid, as we had the same problem with our Butterfly Fish >.< Thanks for reminding me or I would have forgotten. Also, I know a little about cycling, but what is 'seeding?' I haven't come across the term on any sites yet.

Fingers crossed! I can't wait to see her gills looking lovely!

 

[xxianxx]

If the axolotl stays in the tank with the gold fish there is a good chance they may nibble its gills, the algae eaters may also suck the slime off its body exposing it to bacterial and fungal infections which may kill it. Also if it is three months old you wouldnt be able to sex it. How big is it by the way?

 

[Kristen0888]

I would honestly move her as soon as possible. I'm a newbie to axies, so I don't want to give you the wrong advice, but I do know fish well. 6 goldfish and 2 plecos in a 10G tank, first of all, incredibly over stocked. plecos get around 24 inches long and 1 fancy goldfish will get around a foot long. For those alone you should have at least 100G. Secondly, unless you are doing 50% water changes every day and have a filter rated for a 75G or higher, your water parameters must be horrible (not to be rude), goldfish are incredibly messy. I have 2 fancy goldfish (about 2-3 inches each) in a 40G tank with two HOB filters, one for a 50G and another for a 30G and I still need to do two water changes a week to keep the water quality good. I know this isn't a forum about fish, but they are living creatures as well. Anyway, Goldfish are known fatties, they will try to eat anything that slightly looks like it may be food, And the gills of an axie are perfect for them to nip at, as well as fighting for space in that small tank, so that could be part of your problem.

I'm sure that situation isn't good for your axie. So, the pros on here can give you the correct information with your other concerns. But, from a Goldfish keeper's stand point, you need to get that axolotl out of there ASAP.

Again, I don't mean to come off as rude, so I apologize if I do. I wish you and Toothless the best of luck!

 

[EJgraydon]

By seeding your filter he means you can kickstart the cycle in your tank from media in your goldfish tank. I'll take a picture of my filter so you can see what I'm talking about

 

[EJgraydon]

This is what I was talking about with my filter. I actually can see some bacterial growth on the sponge as well. That or algae.

 

[Petersgirl]

I'll need to go back and measure Toothless and the tank, as I reckon I've come out with some wrong numbers! Once I get them this'll become easier. I assumed she was female as she was missing the bumps behind her back legs, but I totally see your point - she doesn't look like she's mature yet. I really need to go back and re read!

Thanks also, EJ, for your help and for the pictures. I didn't know much about tanks before this, but I want to know to make the environment the best for my axxie

As for the current, goldfish-filled tank, that's troublesome too. My Dad assumes his tank is 10 gallon based on the measurements he did while treating the water. He's had fish for years, and they generally keep well, but I don't think he has enough knowledge to really look after the fish. He feels the knowledge I accumulate, and all the bits and pieces I suggest are basically ploys by the pet industry to make money (he also doesn't trust vets; I have been responsible for our beloved dog's worming, flea treatments and vaccinations because he refuses to pay for them and thinks they're essentially a con; I would also like to say that our dog is actually allergic to flea bites). The tank looks really grubby at the moment, which is why he installed the air bar and filter (and why I need to get Toothless out of there!) You're not being rude at all - I really need this advice if I am to get the tanks cleaned up! The numbers are probably wrong on my part but if they're not it does explain a lot!

As you might have guessed, I live with my parents and unfortunately they tend to think they know best! No problem though, as more research, some measurements and a lot of time are going to be plowed in to get these animals really healthy. My parents can't argue with results! Bear with me. I really do want to get this right. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Petersgirl]

Thanks EJ! The pictures make it so much clearer!

Is there a good step by step guide to seeding your filter? I need to know exactly what to do. Failing that, I'll run a search. I just wasn't sure if you knew of a really good site.

 

[Petersgirl]

PS Kristen, you're totally right, goldfish are absolute chubbers. They grab every bit of bloodworm that floats past them, and they...well...they poop a lot. I've noticed that straight off - one of the main reasons I was worried about Toothless, as he/she (need to wait until they're mature!) needs clean water and at least one decent meal a day, at least while they're juvenile.

I've also suggested cleaning the gravel to my Dad too. I think I may just take over responsibility for the fish as, although he does water changes fairly frequently and is like a surgeon with his fish (never uses unnecessary chemicals, always makes sure his hands are clean of contaminants, etc) I don't think he knows much about the water chemistry. I'm sure too that he's got the measurement wrong. It really doesn't look as small as that. I think he must think 10 gallons is quite large (and obviously, so did I). Is there any way to tell the gallon count of your tank, if you didn't buy it from a store?

 

[EJgraydon]

You can take measurements and use a volume calculator

Also, all it has to do with is putting some of the filter media from your goldfish tank that has some bacterial growth on it into your new axxie tank

 

[Kristen0888]

They really are. I under-estimated how dirty they would be when I first got babies, but they proved to me that are more than capable of messing up a tank like no other fish. Haha. Oh, Toothless is lucky to get a tiny bit with goldfish around. One of my goldfish will jump out of the water when I grab their food to get it before the other. It's crazy how they act they are starved, even 2 mins after a feeding. You could try to feed the goldfish right before feeding the axie, distraction could help. For now, you could help the axie out by doing 20% water changes everyday for about a week. Do your best to minimize the current of putting the water back in though.

If you would like some pointers on how to properly care for the messy little goldfish, feel free to ask anything. The biggest things are water quality and temperature. Do your best to keep the temp below 70, higher than 70 and they get sick easily. Though, that will kill your plecos most likely, but goldfish are cold water and plecos are tropical and need water over 75 degrees. Plus, axolotls need colder water, so watch the temperature.

You sound like a very caring person and I give you a lot of credit for trying to do your best to care for your pets properly. I understand what you mean by how your Dad acts with the whole pet store thing. My father has 6 fully grown Angelfish in a 50G tank for about 4 more fish about as big as them, makes me cringe, but he won't listen cause they are alive so obviously well. lol.

Here is a good website if your measure your tank: Fish Aquarium and Tank  Sizes and Characteristics, starting an aquarium, buying equipment, choosing tanks

 

[Petersgirl]

Got off my lazy butt and found both. Just in case anyone else is as new to this as me:

Seeding: Seeding a New Aquarium - How to Seed a New Aquarium

Gallons: Length x Width x Height / 231 = volume in gallons or use Aquarium Volume Calculator.

This is becoming quite the beginner's class!

 

[Petersgirl]

I know your pain Kristen! We've had many pets over the years that weren't really researched prior to being bought or who have had to have underhanded tactics to get them back on track (for example, my Labrador, who has been on two diet/exercise regimes since we got her because of people feeding her fatty human foods!) I know my parents just see it as 'it's just a pet,' but to me, it's never 'just a pet.'

Irrelevant rant over, sorry about that. Anyway, you're totally right, Toothless moves out tomorrow! Is it okay to use the water from her old tank and just replace it with dechlorinated water during water changes? I've read a few methods over the site, I just wondered what you guys would do.
Also, dechlorinating water...is it okay to use a cleansing system designed for goldfish for Toothless' water too? And I remember reading about letting the water stand for 48 hours to allow it to fully clean the water, so I'm going to need a really big bucket! Thanks for all your contributions and sorry for all the questions, but they will lessen as I get wiser.

 

[EJgraydon]

That would be a good idea, it'd kickstart your cycle and help toothless adjust as well!

 

[snuggly time]

Hi,

Glad you're caring for your new pet! I get my worms from this site Buying Lobworms, Worm Fishing for Salmon, Earthworms for Sale, Wormeries for Fishing, Worms Coarse
You can buy them in different sizes too, I get smaller ones so I don't have to chop them up as much. Axies love little wrigglers! If you're unable to purchase online local fishing shops might sell worms, my local pet shop orders them in too so you could ring around.

As for feeding bloodworms... I give my axie bloodworms as a treat. They can be really messy and if you don't remove all of them they can disturb the water quality quite quickly. Have you got a feeding jar? They really help to reduce mess and help keep the tank and water clean. Have you seen this thread? It's full of inspirational ideas :happy: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...rate/74439-i-wanna-see-your-feeding-jars.html