Illness/Sickness: Cynops pyrrhogaster with white eye

[cweiblen]

Hello,

I am new to the forum, so if I make any etiquette mistakes, please be gentle. I found Caudata.org yesterday, while searching for an explanation for my newt's cloudy eye. I am so glad to have found such a great source of information.

First, some background: The newt came from a rescue organization about three months ago. Unfortunately, at the time I took the advice of the rescue and housed the newt with a Bombina orientalis in the five gallon tank they gave me. Thank goodness the animals did not physically harm each other before I found Caudata.org and realized that they were not compatible. This other problem happened first.

Friday night, I thought the newt's eyes looked funny, but he was sleeping so I thought it might just be the way they are supposed to look when they're closed so to speak. Saturday (yesterday), when I fed him, I noticed that his left eye was significantly discolored and didn't seem to move properly when the newt blinked. He still ate a lot and begged for more, just like always.

At first, I thought the white eye was a fungus, so I tried the recommended salt solution (1tsp per 2liters) for 15 minutes. My newt did not seem to mind the solution at first, but after 15 minutes he appeared to be getting uncomfortable. After the soak, I put him in a very bare quarantine container with about an inch of clean aged tap water for the night. About 45 minutes later, I observed him pulling off a layer of shed skin and I thought that must have been the problem, so I was relieved.

This morning, the shed skin was still in the tank, so I took a photo of it because usually amphibian skin gets eaten before you really get a chance to see it, so it's kind of neat. Unfortunately, the newt's eye was still white as well, and I got a good enough look at it to see that it is not fuzzy. So, now I am wondering if it is corneal lipidosis (sp?) If that's what it is, I've read that it's caused by fatty foods. He has been eating a varied diet of commercially produced newt pellets and live crickets.

I have some questions:

1. Have I identified the newt correctly as a Cynops pyrrhogaster? (Originally, I was told he was a 14 year old rough-skinned newt.)
2. Have I identified the eye problem correctly as corneal lipidosis?
3. If it is corneal lipidosis, will changing the newt's diet help it go away?
4. Did he shed because of the salt bath that I gave him, or was it a coincidence? How safe are those baths, really?
5. Is my quarantine box big enough for him temporarily, while he heals?

I have attached some photos of the newt's physical characteristics, his eye problem, and the quarantine container that I have him in temporarily. On my profile are more photos.

 

[Azhael]

Yes, it is a C.pyrrhogaster, most probably sasayamae.
I´d say it is a female too.
The problem with eye is probably an infection of some kind, so the salt baths are the usual treatment. Neosporin is also said to be very good for this things(only the brand with no painkillers).
The quarantine set-up is ok, but if the animal is fully aquatic, and it looks so, it will be much more comfortable with much more water.

Infections and salt baths promote frequent shedding, so that´s perfectly normal.
Don´t abuse the salt baths, they are rather agressive for the newt.

 

[Jennewt]

It's not easy to distinguish between a cloudy eye caused by infection versus cataract or keratitis. If you plan to go to a vet, I can send you some pages from the Wright&whitaker book that draw the relevant distinctions between these. A vet with the proper optical instruments could probably diagnose with reasonable certainty.

Since the newt appears healthy otherwise, infection seems unlikely. Corneal lipidosis seems unlikely too, although switching to a diet of worms wouldn't hurt. Crickets are low in fat, so they would be unlikely to cause lipidosis. Newt pellets... I'm always tempted to blame all problems on these, though they seem unlike to cause the problem, unless there are decaying leftovers causing water quality issues.

1. yes
2. probably not, or I'd expect it to affect both eyes and come on more gradually
3. yes
4. yes and yes, but 15 min. is the max length, and it's probably not necessary
5. yes, but be sure to change the water daily. And if she lives by herself, it would probably be OK to keep her in her regular tank.

Did she have a pebble substrate in her regular tank? Pebbles + newt pellets will often cause water quality problems, because it's difficult to clean out the uneaten ones. Did you ever test her regular tank for ammonia? Ammonia or other chemical toxicity would also be something that could cause eye problems.

 

[cweiblen]

Excellent information! Thank you both very very much for taking the time to answer my questions. I'm going to try treating her myself with your advice, today and tomorrow, as long as she keeps eating. If I see no improvement in that time, or if it gets worse, it's off to the vet.

She is definitely aquatic, but I have seen her come out onto the land a couple of times, so maybe I was being overly cautious with the water level in the quarantine. I'll increase the depth today.

I have not tested the ammonia level in the water that she was kept in before, but I have a waterfall filter and a canister filter in there, and I vacuum and do water changes every week or so, so I 'think' it's good. I will get an ammonia test kit today, while I'm out getting her some worms!

Thank you again for your advice and guidance. :happy:

C.

 

[cweiblen]

Update on the newt: She's not any worse, but she's not any better.

I tried using a cotton swab to apply bacitracin ointment to the eye for two days, but with no effect except making the newt afraid of me. (I can't blame her really - who wants to get poked in the eye every day?)

Tonight, I am going to try a bath of triple sulfa.

I also put together a small habitat with some plants and a canister filter, so she can live alone, but more comfortably than in the quarantine container.

I tested and found that my water quality is excellent in the habitat where she was housed when she became ill. Nitrate zero, nitrite zero, ammonia zero, hardness ideal. The only thing I can find that is slightly anomalous is the pH, which is consistently between 7.6 and 8.0 in the aquarium and also coming from my water tap.

I've put some peat moss in the canister filter for her new housing, to try to drop the pH a bit naturally. I've also removed all lighting and am trying to drop the temperature. I'm stuck at 74 degrees, and can't seem to get it any cooler than that - probably because of the filter.

 

[cweiblen]

Just an update to let you know that my newt has made a full recovery. Here is how I accomplished it:

• Day 1: 15 minutes in a bath of triple sulfa, mixed per the instructions for fish, fed by hand while in the bath
• Day 2: 30 minutes in the sulfa bath, fed by hand while in the bath
• Day 3: 30 minutes in the sulfa bath, fed by hand while in the bath
• Day 4: some improvement noted, so stopped treatment
• Day 5: no further improvement, so gave her another 30 minute sulfa bath and fed by hand
• Day 6: 30 minute sulfa bath and fed by hand
• Day 7: improvement noted, stopped treatment
• Day 8: more improvement
• Day 10: fully recuperated

All together, it took five baths in triple sulfa. If and when the newt became uncomfortable in the bath, I removed her immediately and put her back into her naturalistic quarantine tank.

Quarantine tank water quality was adjusted to keep the pH at 7.4. Temp was in the 74 to 76 range. No ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates were allowed to build up. Other tank features included a canister filter to produce a strong flow of clean water, rock substrate, and common aquarium plants. The tank was placed about three feet away from a full spectrum light (needed for a different aquarium) with a shade between, resulting in very dim ambient light.

I think the newt became ill because she was housed with an incompatible species, in a living setup that did not suit her. i.e. too hot and pH too high

I learned a lesson: don't keep Bombina orientalis with Cynops pyrrhogaster. And always double check the care information that you receive when you get an animal!

Thanks to those people who responded to my plea for help. Your advice was very helpful.

 

[Jennewt]

It's always nice to hear a happy ending

 

[vistajpdf]

I second that! Congratulations and thanks for the recipe - hopefully, no one will need it, but it's great to hear about something that did seem to work!

Dana

 

[sal]

I've had my Japanese Fire-Bellied Newt since May of 1987, so now it's almost been 24 years. He's been housed alone for 20 years, and has recently developed the same white eye in his left like yours did. I first noticed it starting months ago, past two weeks it's become completley white. Thought it was a shed-related problem, now I hope it's not too late to save his eye. Will start triple sulfa treatment today. Wonder if just using a Q-tip and dripping the solution would work, why do you have to fully immerse it in the solution and feed? BTW, the eye doesn't seem to bother him, or suppress appetite.

 

[sal]

Tonight I gave my Japanese Fire-Bellied newt his 8th treatment in 11 days. No improvement sorry to say. One packet of triple sulfa treats 10 gallons of water for fish, so I mixed 1/16 packet in a 2 liter bottle and bathed the newt for 30 minutes the first 6 times, 7th time for 45 minutes slightly less diluted solution. He really didn't like that, seemed like his other eye was irritated afterwards. Newt is usually terrestrial, hangs out under a piece of cork bark on folded wet paper towels, becomes aquatic for no more than a month at a time. He was in an aquatic mode until after the first treatment, it made him shed and go into land mode. Tonight I mixed the solution double strength and used a dropper on the eye over a 20 minute period. Anybody out there have any suggestions?

 

[Jennewt]

A vet could prescribe a stronger antibiotic with more accurate dosing. You could try a series of salt baths. Those are the only two ideas that come to mind.

 

[sal]

Last night I made the triple sulfa solution 50% stronger and added a full teaspoon of salt to the one liter bottle, used dropper again for 15 minutes. When I returned him to his tank he went straight under his bark, didn't wash off through the water like he usually does. Looked on the net this morning to find a vet in my area, but before calling took the newt out and examined him again. It seems to be clearing up! The top half of the eye is clear, looking at me. I'll keep treating, thank you for the salt suggestion.

 

[sal]

Didn't treat tonight, seems better, at least I can see an eye there. Think I will use one teaspoon of non-iodized salt per liter and use the dropper every other day or every three days. Tried three teaspoons of salt in 48 ounces, used dropper for around ten minutes - definitely bothered him. Soaked his head in the water after that. I guess it would be ok to use that concentration if it was his leg, not an eye. Picture I took tonight.