Do you bring your axolotl to your vet?

[Darkmaverick]

Hi all,

Its been interesting to see many experienced axolotl guardians providing tips to improving the welfare and wellbeing of pets. There were also many wonderful treatment methods and diagnosis of illnesses with many beautifully shown in photo examples.

I am curious to see if axolotl owners tend to self-diagnose and treat their own pets or have a vet they bring it to. Do you feel that vets are lacking in training in amphibian medicine at where you are, and as such there are few amphibian specialists around? Do you feel its pivotal for vets to be more involved and educated in amphibian medicine?

I am a small animal vet myself and i have seen an increasing number of clients bringing in exotics (reptiles/amphibians/arachnids/insects), and i must admit i wasn't prepared. Many of my vet colleagues too are not familiar with exotics medicine and we all tend to refer the client to a specialist. I think this is a critical issue that needs addressing on a wider scale (such as through feedback to the universities) to move forward as doctors for all creatures great and small.

Please feel free to also private message if you feel more comfortable doing so, if you have any suggestions or feedback. Im particularly interested in hearing from people located in australia, NSW/sydney.

Regards

 

[Kaysie]

Some vets around here are a little more experienced with exotics, but not many. I know my vet and I have often discussed treatment, and we refer to the same manual. I'd say most of us 'self diagnose', and only visit the vet when we need prescription meds.

 

[Jennewt]

Welcome, Ray. We are always happy when a vet posts on the forum.

I do feel that there is a great need for vets to be more involved in amphibian medicine. While I usually "self-treat" my animals, there are certain situations where the only reasonable advice that I can give to someone is "try to find a vet that can help you". For example, the best treatment for certain injuries is amputation/regeneration. It's really bad, I think, for me to tell people to cut off an animal's limbs. Most people need professional help for this, both for the access to an analgesic, and also because most people just aren't comfortable doing this themself.

Don't vets have access to all sorts of resources and "vets-only" kinds of online forums? I don't expect every vet to know about amphibian medicine, but there is a need for more vets willing to look up information and prescribe a medication that isn't available at pet shops, for example.

 

[paullism]

Ray

Well as relative new owners of Axolotls, I believe that Chelsea & I would always seek the advise from our fellow owners on her first. The reason for that is that is the advise that we have been given so far is 100% correct. God forbid, but if any thing did happen to them we would implement the advice given to us by our friends from here, however (like Jen mentioned) I can say that there is no way that I could perform an amputation, if that was required we would then go to a vet. I was nervous enough when I had to remove them from our tank to change the substrate !

 

[Neke]

I did seek the help of a vet once up here in Brisbane, but I was told that they don't treat axolotls and was referred to a specialist. However just the consultation fee for the specialist was close to $100, which seemed insane. I looked up a heap of information on different vets and one of them actually stated that the vet had experience keeping salamanders but they still said they couldn't look at an axolotl when I called. I think the more vets who know how to treat them (properly), the better.

 

[gr33neyes]

Here in my part of the UK I'm not sure if a vet would even know what it was if I took my axolotl to the vet. I certainly wouldn't be keen on spending a sum of money on 'experimental' treatment so to speak.

 

[herpvet]

I did seek the help of a vet once up here in Brisbane, but I was told that they don't treat axolotls and was referred to a specialist. However just the consultation fee for the specialist was close to $100, which seemed insane. I looked up a heap of information on different vets and one of them actually stated that the vet had experience keeping salamanders but they still said they couldn't look at an axolotl when I called. I think the more vets who know how to treat them (properly), the better.

Hello,

Just felt I had to comment on this. I'm not too sure how that price compares to normal vet consultation fees where you are, but a couple of thoughts (from the vet's side).

From a veterinary time point of view, an amphibian consultation will (should) be a lot longer than a standard dog or cat consult, as the husbandry needs to be thoroughly assessed (and possibly researched if the vet is unfamiliar with the species presented), at least for new clients. Granted the physical examination may be more limited than in larger animals, but this depends on the species. Further investigations such as lab fees, radiographs etc will tend to be similar costs to other animals, although again more research and consultation with colleagues (read that: time) may be involved for the vet.

Experienced keepers are a different situation, and in such cases diagnosis and treatment decisions will tend to be joint discussion between vet and keeper, but for the unknown client the considerations mentioned must apply.

In a strictly business sense (and never forget that veterinary services are businesses), they should therefore be more expensive than a normal consultation. Or in simpler terms, in any field specialist/minority services will tend to cost more - to justify the specialist training/learning, they have to.

However, I am aware there are financial realities, and although I personally wouldn't condone it in any way for any pet, most people just aren't going to pay a lot of money for veterinary care for an amphibian or invertebrate pet (there are exceptions, including hopefully most people on this forum!).

This obviously tends to dictate low consult fees. However, the result of that is that the vet doesn't have the incentive to spend time learning more about these pets, so provides a poorer service, so people are less willing to pay for it, giving even less incentive, etc. Vets won't get any better with amphibians if people don't take them amphibians to treat.

The only way out of this vicious cycle is if the vet has a strong interest and is willing to put his/her time in to learn as much as possible without passing full costs on to the owner, as some of us do. But you should be aware of and appreciative of that fact : ).

You should also be willing to work with your vet - her/she may not be an expert in husbandry of your particular species, but should be able to carry out diagnostic tests, and by discussion with other vets help on the medical side.

I should add that I wouldn't condone vets charging large fees if they don't truly have an interest in and keep up to date with husbandry and medicine of the species involved. But if they do, you should be aware that in a business sense they are sensible to do so.

Bruce.

 

[Darkmaverick]

Its fantastic to hear the viewpoint from another vet. I agree wholeheartedly with the situation that Bruce has mentioned. It is a similar case here in sydney. Furthermore, in a bachelor's vet degree course, i can safely say i have NEVER had one lecture about axolotls. Although i had some training in conservation biology and general anatomy, physiology and husbandry of amphibians and reptiles, there were no coverage of any amphibian medicine. I gather most of my knowledge from investing in textbooks about exotic animal diseases as well as informative sites like caudata.org! I can confidently say that i had recommended this site to my fellow vet colleagues as well as clients to gather information. There are courses and seminars available occasionally for postgrad training but they are relatively rare (or specialised and expensive). If only i had known i became so passionate with axolotls, i might have done a phD on them instead of feline coronaviruses and immunology. (i still love cats though )

Fortunately most of my axolotl cases that i have seen are easily rectified. I would say 70-80% of all my axolotl (amphibian) and reptile cases were due to mismanagement of animal husbandry. Water quality and temperature appears to be the main culprits in these cases. Other common presentations were obesity ( I know a plump axolotl may look cute but...) or feeding one exclusive food type that is deficient in a nutrient, for example, calcium. I have the odd queries of 'desexing' axolotls but i merely recommended separating males and females into different tanks. Other than that i have always used first principles.

For eg. an axolotl was presented with a well-circumscribed immobile, nodular lesion on the flank. I approached it like any other lesions in any species. Gather history from client, do a quick 'physical', suggested obtaining specimen via fine needle aspirate or biopsy, send specimen for cytology or histopath, culture and gram stain. I ran through a differential list in my mind - infiltrative (neoplasia/inflammation (abscess)/ granuloma (mycobacteria, fungus, parasite??) and went through that with my client. However, i felt very crippled by this stage because im not exaclty familiar with the specific pathogens of amphibians and had to discuss the case with my colleagues and research the net and textbooks. This is also the moment that i joined caudata! I can frankly say i gathered a lot of knowledge and information from this site.

On a different note, i was suddenly inspired with an idea. I know there is webpage link showing a table of illnesses/treatment as well as some photographs. I was wondering if a more thorough and specific compilation of illnesses/treatments and pictures could be created on this site, that can serve not only as a good quick reference guide to hobbyists but also to vets. For example, a photo compilation of fungal infections in different coloured axolotls, name of pathogen, diagnostic tests, treatment options etc. with a heading. Different diseases will each have their own heading and categorised neatly. I have observed people commonly mistaken skin shedding with fungus for eg. and different coloured axolotls may appear different in terms of presentation (A melanoid versus an albino with skin shedding). The photo compilation may assist in diagnoses. It took me quite a while to discern a well fed plump axolotl with a bloated one!

Just my two cents, but it has been a fun forum.

Cheers
Rayson

 

[Abrahm]

On a different note, i was suddenly inspired with an idea. I know there is webpage link showing a table of illnesses/treatment as well as some photographs. I was wondering if a more thorough and specific compilation of illnesses/treatments and pictures could be created on this site, that can serve not only as a good quick reference guide to hobbyists but also to vets. For example, a photo compilation of fungal infections in different coloured axolotls, name of pathogen, diagnostic tests, treatment options etc. with a heading. Different diseases will each have their own heading and categorised neatly. I have observed people commonly mistaken skin shedding with fungus for eg. and different coloured axolotls may appear different in terms of presentation (A melanoid versus an albino with skin shedding). The photo compilation may assist in diagnoses. It took me quite a while to discern a well fed plump axolotl with a bloated one!

I think this is a cool idea, but I also know think it could be really problematic to implement. Many of the amphibian diseases can only be appropriately diagnosed by culture, not something that many hobbyists are capable of doing.

I wouldn't like to take the power out of the veterinarian's hands either. Even if they are not trained to deal with amphibians, their knowledge of treating disease is far greater than the average hobbyist. They are better armed to deal with dispensing treatments. A picture filled how to guide could easily result in people buying medicine (online for vet only stuff) and treating their animals themselves to possible disastrous ends.

Bruce, I understand what you mean about the higher cost of doing a consult for an exotic, but I wish I saw the investment that you mentioned form the vet coupled with that cost. I used to take my various animals to the vet for exams and help, but I've become frustrated with the process. The various vets that I have used do not ask husbandry questions, perform cursory physical examinations and have provided very little advice or support. I would pay for a little more research and better answers. It is pretty horrible to bring a snake in that isn't eating to have it pronounced healthy and sent home to die within 48 hours. In an ideal world I would agree with you, but I am not seeing the give and take you are talking about.

Have you seen the ILAR free articles on amphibians?