Does all the water have to go if an axolotl has a fungal infection?

Thank you for pointing that out, but I understand this! As said I was concerned about those recommendations of fungicides/antibacterials... I will look into the whole true and false fungus though when I was reading about fungus' I had never once read this term...'
 
I am not an expert of which fish treatments will/won't be axolotl safe, so I cannot comment to that. I wanted to give a word of caution to those who are considering using antibiotic drops on their axolotls: Do not dose them in the tank. Even fish keepers often separate fish for antibiotic treatment (either temporarily or in a quarantine tank), because antibiotics (if they're doing their job) will kill the beneficial bacteria that cycles a tank. One day of in-tank dosing and the cycle could easily be back to day one. Then, on top of whatever the original ailment is/was, the animal will have to endure the stress of an uncycled tank.

(*Oh, and I think that all the poster meant by "false fungus" was that bacterial infections might sometimes be misdiagnosed by owners as fungal infections. I've never heard of "false fungus" either, but I suppose it is a lot quicker than typing out "bacterial infection that has been misdiagnosed as a fungal infection.")
 
True fungus is real fungus... requires fungus treatment. BUT, sometimes what we call "fungus" or looks like it, is actually a bacterial infection... and an anti-fungus will not work. Makes sense?

That seems like common sense, but only after it's been pointed out. Thanks Francois! I thought I was good with fungus but after your steer and looking into the whole true/false fungus I now know there are a range of other factors that also should be considered. (Although whether true or false, a fungus still seems to always be caused by bad environmental factors)
 
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Thanks for the super replies! I love how we all learn together! I have not taken a photo since my axo has been through 2 baths and his condition has really improved. Not sure if the camera would be able to clearly capture the little bit of columnaris in his gills left but I will take a shot. It was definitely what francois called the bacterial/fake fungus (thanks man!) as I have seen in it enough on caudata to recognize it. :)

I only did some 25% wc the last two days and yes I am so glad I don't need a 100% change. And I can admit that I believe the original condition that probably caused the columnaris break was the fact that I cycled with axo in.

Unlike most people who cycle without fish, they only add in a certain amount of ammonia, whether produced by live or with food. Then they let the process have a mind of it's own. I don't know how many people did cycle with an axo in but there is constanly ammonia in the tank as it is produced by their gills, poop, and food. That means it later turns into nitrites. The hardest part of cycling axo in was keeping the nitrites down. It took me a couple of months! During then there would have been times of higher levels of nitrites in the tank, which can cause an axo's immunity to weaken. Plus the prospect of frequent water changes must hve taken it's toll.
 
It sounds like everything is on it's way to getting better, and like you really understand what's going on in the tank, which is awesome. Sounds like your little guy is going to be fine. :D
 
Thanks for the super replies! I love how we all learn together! I have not taken a photo since my axo has been through 2 baths and his condition has really improved. Not sure if the camera would be able to clearly capture the little bit of columnaris in his gills left but I will take a shot. It was definitely what francois called the bacterial/fake fungus (thanks man!) as I have seen in it enough on caudata to recognize it. :)

I only did some 25% wc the last two days and yes I am so glad I don't need a 100% change. And I can admit that I believe the original condition that probably caused the columnaris break was the fact that I cycled with axo in.

Unlike most people who cycle without fish, they only add in a certain amount of ammonia, whether produced by live or with food. Then they let the process have a mind of it's own. I don't know how many people did cycle with an axo in but there is constanly ammonia in the tank as it is produced by their gills, poop, and food. That means it later turns into nitrites. The hardest part of cycling axo in was keeping the nitrites down. It took me a couple of months! During then there would have been times of higher levels of nitrites in the tank, which can cause an axo's immunity to weaken. Plus the prospect of frequent water changes must hve taken it's toll.

Ohhh YES do we all learn from each other! All of us, from our bad and good experiences, our success and failures. This ability to communicate from all over the world is amazing, that's what make caudata.org such a fun, educating site!
 
Jake,
The easiest way of getting that white fluff off of those gills is daily salt baths. They fall off after a while. It is possible that they float around the tank as they sometimes fall off in the tank.
You may even try to pull the fluff off with tweezers (carefully). If it doesn't come away easily, then let it be and do the salt baths. That type of fungus doesn't need antibiotic treatment.
I would definitely not use fish medication of amphibians. As already pointed out, most of those will harm your axolotl rather than help it. Copper, as well as malachite green are toxic to axolotls and may kill them.
What you may use, if you can get it, is Blue Methylene (the pure stuff, not mixed with other substances - in Switzerland I get that at the pharmacy / drug store). One can use that against fungus, just as well as salt. Blue Methylene is also a disinfectant. It may be used to help heal wounds and to protect the wound from fungus.
 
though a fungus is usually a self surviving organism. Is this what you meant by true fungus francois? As in the difference between the common columnaris and a truly self propagating fungus
I suspect you're getting 3 different kinds of organism confused here.

Virus - Basically an envelope of protein with some genetic material inside. They're very small, representatives infect nearly every kind of living thing, including bacteria (these are calle bacteriophages) and they're not technically alive. They cannot replicate themselves and require the "machinery" of another living cell to replicate. What kind of cell they can invade and hijack is usually quite specific. So for example, an axolotl virus won't infect the cells of your java moss and vice versa.

Bacteria - Single celled organisms that can live in small clumps or chains. They can reproduce on their own via fission or splitting, producing two identical individuals. These organisms are classified as prokaryotic, that is, they don't have a nucleus. They do have genetic material but it's not organised into chromosomes like a human's is. You'll often hear them classified as "Gram negative" or "Gram positive", this has to do with the way their cell walls stain in a Gram's stain. The differences in the cell walls of different bacteria are often the reason why certain antibiotics don't work on certain bacteria.

Fungus - These organisms can reproduce on their own and include single celled organisms such as brewers yeast or multicellular organisms like mushrooms. Their cell walls are composed of chitin (the same substance that makes insect exoskeletons hard) and they are eukaryotic, they have a nucleus and chromosomes. Humans and Axolotls are both Eukaryotic but we don't have cell walls only cell membranes.

The differences between a prokaryotic and eukaryotic organism are vast and this combined with the way their cell walls are constructed means that antibiotics for a bacteria, quite often, don't work on a fungus. In fact penicllin is produced by a mold as a defence against invading bacteria.

I think Francois is trying to say that, without a microscope or some metabolic tests, it can be very hard to tell the difference between a fungal colony and a bacterial colony using the naked eye. Columnaris, a bacteria, apears as white fluffy colonies, apparently, as does a fungal infection. Treatment will work best if you are targeting the right kind of organism.

Hope this clears things up and hope it doesn't come across as condescending. If you have any other questions, please ask.

Back to washing my new sand substrate... *sigh*

-D-
 
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