Eurycea but which one?

[KennyDB]

Hi guys I would like to know witch eurycea this one is, I thought bislineata or cirrigera. I have a group of 1.1.4 bislineatas but this one is bigger so I can't really tell, maybe you guys can help me out.
He is male for sure...little teeth, strong head.

 

[John]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

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[KennyDB]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

Ok then, here he is

 

[nate]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

It's either bislineata or cirrigera. You can't tell definitively without locality data.

 

[jbherpin]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

My only comment is that I believe that Southern(cirrigera) males have those downward projections from the nose. If it is Cirrigera, it'd be an old female. If it is Bislineata, It could be male, but in my experience the female is proportionately larger and heavier. Plus the heavy black speckling is something that only occurs in old individuals in my locale(Ohio-Northern). The males I encounter/keep are all more slender and less stout than the females. If I were forced to guess, the coloration looks more Cirrigera.
-jbherpin-

 

[Lamb]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

My only comment is that I believe that Southern(cirrigera) males have those downward projections from the nose. -jbherpin-

Don't E. cirrigera males only have those downward projections (called cirri) during the mating season?

 

[Kaysie]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

All male plethodontids have cirri during breeding season.

 

[John]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

All male plethodontids have cirri during breeding season.

Kaysie, I think you've misunderstood Lamb's meaning. I believe he was saying that the species in question only exhibits its cirri during the breeding season, therefore if the specimen has them outside the breeding season it's not this species.

 

[Kaysie]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

Right. I didn't understand what she was saying. Sorry!

 

[Slimy2]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

The coloration looks a lot more like E. bislineata. Every cirrigera I have ever kept or caught were much lighter in coloration nor as spotted as the one in the picture. Of course that may have just been what cirrigera looked like where I lived in Georgia but I think it looks alot more like bislineata in my opinion.

 

[KevinS]

Re: Eurycea but wich one?

Believe it or not, not all E. cirrigera males develop cirri (although that is the trait for which the species was named). In my part of WV the males develop enlarged heads in breeding condition, but never cirri. I just took some crappy pictures of a male I found on the prowl last week since he was a good example of this phenomenon. I'm not sure how widespread this is, but I've been doing thesis work in eastern Kentucky since October of 2007 and haven't seen a cirrigera with cirri there yet. I wouldn't say that means they definitely don't get them there either, but I suspect that's the case since I found quite a few.

 

[Lamb]

With very similar looking amphibians, like E. cirrigera and E. bislineata, I'm reluctant to use shade of color as a judge because it can vary. From Peterson's field guide:

"Blue ridge Two lined Salamanders (E. wilderae) that occur below 4,000 feet and Southern Two-lined Salamanders (E. cirrigera) have 14 costal grooves. Rely heavily on geography in distinguishing among the three species of Two-lined Salmanders."

Have you counted costal grooves? E. bislineata has 15-16. But, as Peterson says, geography is really important here.

 

[KevinS]

Just to illustrate how variable pattern can be within the species, here are two individuals I found just a few feet from each other in the same stream (both Eurycea cirrigera).

 

[Lamb]

They are pretty little critters.

 

[EmeraldExotics]

I think my larvae are those now...I love that they have a long tail.