Extremely fat T. grans

K

kate

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Hello all. Sorry if this post is silly or redundant, but I'm worried about one of my T. grans and I just want to be sure. Over the past month or so Aragorn has gotten very fat. He was a healthy weight when I got him back in July, and stayed that way for a long time. (I should mention that I don't know for sure what his gender is--he could well be a gravid female!) But recently (without any major changes to their diet, which consists of pellets and mealworms) he's begun to grow pudgier. It's kind of alarming now.

It doesn't look like bloat to my inexperienced eyes, because his throat, legs and cloaca are normal. Only his abdomen is swelling, and it's really just toward the lower end. I'm posting some pictures so you can see for yourselves. I should add that in what I've observed, his behavior hasn't really changed much.

So it seems I'm either facing a bloated and sickly newt, a gravid female (there is a second T. grans in the tank, Merry. If so, how long does the gestation period usually last?) or just a very, very eager eater. Can anyone help? And if he does have bloat, can anyone suggest what I should do? There is no vet in the area who can handle amphibians, unfortunately...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/allyourbase/P1010131.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/allyourbase/P1010130.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/allyourbase/P1010129.jpg

P.S. I also want to thank everyone who responded when I asked for help with my sick T. grans before (a different one, my Sam). Sam didn't make it, but at least now I've got them on a different diet and these two are better off in the long run.

(Message edited by Calliel on December 08, 2006)
 
i'm not a 100% but i would say its not bloat more likely a very gravid female.
 
Looks like bloat to me. Especially if it's happened fairly suddenly. The chest looks swollen.

Gravid females will have a 'pear shape' where the chest is thin and there's a bulge in front of the front legs. Yours is more of a 'teardrop', which is not normal for gravid females.
 
Eek. X__x Differing opinions, eh?

Well, what should I do in both cases, if you don't mind? And if a female is gravid and I treat her for bloat by mistake, will it harm her?
 
It could be a form of bloat. It may require an aspiration by a vet to determine if it is due to being gravid, or bloated or another problem.

What are the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH levels in the tank?

Ed
 
Don't laugh, but I'm not entirely sure how to check those. ^^

And I don't have a vet within a three-hour radius who can tell me what's wrong with my newt--trust me, I've called a LOT of them. Is there any other way to tell?

Joan--his chest isn't swollen, he just has a swollen lower abdomen. The rest of him is normal.
 
Perhaps take some water to an aquarium store, they usually offer to test the water for a few dollars.

To me the newt also looks swollen beyond what I am used to with well fed taricha grans. However, I have yet to see a confirmed gravid female (trust me, my male is doing his utmost to help me there!).

I guess things to look for are regular stools, does she poo like normal (put her in some clean water to increase the urge to take a dump).

She may be retaining fluid. Is there an easy place for her to leave the water?
 
This is a picture of my fattest taricha grans.
74400.jpg

74401.jpg

She's fat to begin with and ate a double meal yesterday.
 
And here's a pic of mine, male on the left (fed yesterday), female on the right, fed 2 days ago.

74404.jpg
 
And another pic of my big old female, showing the 'pear shape'.

74407.jpg
 
She leaves the water just fine and appears to be pooping normally. Her activity level is what makes me hesitate to think she's sick; she's been moving around just like normal and hasn't acted any differently at all.

Are there any steps I should take in either case? Unfortunately my school is in a very rural area and we don't have any good aquarium stores.
 
Hi Kate,

The photographs are difficult to fully diagnose what is going on. It's good news to hear that she is eating and moving about normally. On the other hand, you can see the backbone of your animal, which is not normal if it is indeed "exceptionally obese/gravid."

Even if the vet in your area cannot handle amphibians, it might be worthwhile to take a fecal sample (aka "collect the poo") to the vet. They can often do diagnostic tests on just a small sample.

It's best if you can quarentine your animal for a few days on clean moist paper towels to get the fecal sample.

One note on your food choices. Mealworms are often hard to digest and pellets may not offer a complete nutritional balance. In fact, mealworms have a hard indigestible shell and feeding too many mealworms can result in impaction. I would try switching to nightcrawlers immediately, but it might be too late. Once impaction occurs, usually surgical intervention is necessary.

If it is at all possible, offer nightcrawlers to your T. grans. Here is a good link for other foods: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/foods.shtml
 
To me, the newt looks a bit abnormal. She is larger than the photos from Ester and Joan. She reminds me of my dearly departed Notophthalmus, who is shown in the last 2 photos on this page:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/bloatEDK.shtml
My Notophthalmus had what I call "slow bloat". It developed over a period of months. In the beginning, she just looked gravid, but at some point I realized that she was too fat to be gravid. A couple of months later, she was obviously abnormal and unable to move properly any more. During most of this period, though, she ate and acted normal (she never left the water, but never did before getting fat either).

If vet care isn't possible, it's hard to say what you can do, other than wait and watch. The underlyiing problem could be digestive impaction, organ failure (causing fluid retention), or some kind of egg-bound problem.
 
Thanks everyone. I'm home at last, so I managed to get Aragorn into the vet today. He has been retaining fluid. The vet pulled 4 full syringes out of the poor little guy. She said there were a few things that could have caused it, and one was bacterial, so she gave me some antibiotics to drip on his skin, and he's in quarantine. If he starts bloating up again, I'm going to take him in and he will probably be euthanized.

Thanks for all your help! Hopefully, these meds will help the little fella--he's so much more comfortable now without all that fluid in him.
 
I'm sorry your newt is sick. But I am so glad that you found a vet to help you. Sending healing thoughts your way!
Take care,
Mary.
 
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