Finally! Pachytriton breeding

J

joseph

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Thats awesome Erik!

Do you think the water movement from the sponge filter had anything to do with it?
 
E

erik

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Hi Joseph. I am not sure how much the sponge filter had to do with it if anything. I have almost 40 aquatic tanks so I use a single central blower and sponge filters in each tank. Some tanks have supplemental filters (Fluval 2 internals mostly). I have seen the species in the wild and they live in rapid streams, but also in the calm pools.

I honestly think I just got the right pair together and left things alone.
 
E

erik

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OK so here is the update. The eggs are fertile-I can see they are developing. I have counted 19 now, but more could be concealed in the pot. Today I decided to feed them. The female came out of the pot right away and the male began courting her instantly. They both ate and eventually she went back to guarding the eggs.

I have noticed more and more how much this breeder male watches the P.labiatus in the other tank... maybe this helped? The 2 tanks are back to back.

Here are a few more pics. I appologize for the quality, but I don't want to disturb them too much and the tank is only lit by a big window.



 
J

john

Guest
He's a beauty. Congrats again on the eggs and it's good to hear that they're fertile.
 
N

nate

Guest
Erik, you're the man. Congrats on a huge accomplishment!

So maybe people are just too impatient with paddletails and give up too soon given their aggressive natures?
 
H

heather

Guest
Erik, how did you manage to lower the temps to the 40's? Do you have a chiller or rig something up? Again, very cool and I am looking forward to updates,
Heather
 
E

erik

Guest
Thanks again everyone. They are just 4 dollar pet shop newts, but for a Salamandrid, they are pretty tricky to breed and to me, very interesting.

Nate- I think it just takes a lot of switching around individual specimens to get the right ones together. Maybe there are genetic differences between two that may look the same? Newts from several different provinces probably get lumped together at the exporters.....

Heather-my salamander room is in my unheated basement. My basement is only partially underground but it gets fairly cold in the winter. I let the temperature fluctuate naturally all year until summer when I have to turn on an a/c unit to keep the temps under 70F. So basically I have a range from ~45F to ~71F. I have a different smaller area that I keep warmer (55Fto 78F) for things like Paramesotriton and Echinotriton.
 

ek

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a quick update

Everything is going reasonably well. I had to remove the male after he went crazy, ate some eggs and then almost killed the female. She was injured pretty badly and almost log her leg. This pair had been living together without any trouble since 2004. While she was recovering (4 or 5 days), she left the eggs, but has now returned to guarding them.

The eggs are developing well, but I can't get a decent picture to save my life. More info later.....
 

John

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I'm glad she's recovering. Please keep us informed ;).
 

rigsby

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hi Erik...mine has now also produced eggs but she is in a tank with four others ,would you recommend removing the eggs, they are laid on the bottom of a piece of drift wood and she is guarding them but i'm a bit concerned about there being the four others in there with her .I don't want to take the others out as they have been in the same tank,same set up for some time now with no aggression and i'm afraid if i remove them and reintroduce them their aggressive nature may surface. I feel it may be wiser to take them out and hatch them in a seperate container ,what do you think. I also have another female in there that looks about ready......ian
 

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Sounds nasty Erik....at least she has resumed guarding her eggs. Have you read the article (I think by Max Sparreboom - I'll check) on Pachytriton; there is a chunk about raising labiatus (or at least experience he had trying to do so)? One important things was that the larvae hatch in a very undeveloped state; he presumes to avoid being predated in the egg. I can scan the article for those interested (it is in a reptile hobbyist-type magazine).
Ian; it may well be safer to remove other newts - we have seen from Erik's animals that violence can suddenly erupt, and to other individuals, those eggs (which don't seem terribly well hidden!) are just food that doesn't try to get away. If you want to rear them safely, it would definately be worth taking the other animals out. I would think playing'safe rather than sorry' is better than risking the eggs' survival.

Sorry, wittered on a bit there.

Congrats, too Ian. Good luck to both of you!

Chris
 

will_j

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sorry to hear about the war Erik, but as long as she's returned to guarding hopefully it'll be buisness as usual!

good luck with yours Ian!
 

rigsby

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had to remove the eggs in the end, she was protecting them from the other newts but didn't seem to notice the snails helping themselves. I keep snails in the tank because they breed in there and the newts eat them so its a good food sorce. Anyway Erik and i can endeavour to hatch and bring on the young in two different environments and see if either way makes a difference...ian
 

ek

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Well Done Ian. Really awesome that people are finally having some success with Pachytriton because who knows how much longer we will have imports.

My eggs are about to hatch. Embryos are swimming around inside the egg and have become darker. Female has been guarding them real well up until today when she went out for a walk around the tank.

I'll probably try a few ways of raising the larvae, but I think they are going to hatch pretty huge. The stressful part will be metamorphosis and after.

Good luck Ian. Let us know how the eggs did after being moved.
 

fishkeeper

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Erik: Do Pachytriton have a terrestrial stage?
 

ek

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Joseph,

Yes most (all?) Pachytriton have a terrestrial stage. Some forms we know nothing about, so it may be different with Pachytriton "d". I know Henk bred "c" and I think the metamorphs went on land.
 

jewett

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Any news about the eggs (heres hoping no news is good news)?
 

ek

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Well I haven't been on here in a long time.....

Most have transformed and went terrestrial at a very small size. I am trying to force a few to stay in the water, but most have climbed the glass. The ones that have transformed are doing well and eating, but growing slow. The only losses from the larvae are the ones that escaped (I didn't realize they would transform so tiny), before I had a lid on the larvae containers. All the others survived and were VERY easy to raise.......so far. The terrestrial phase is going to be long and painful I think.

I'll get pics at some point.

Erik
 
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