Question: Fringes on gills dissappearing

[MartinBr]

Recently I have noticed that Ohm'r is loosing the fringes on his gills. They have been decreasing over time, and this is worring me. I dont think that voltrata is eating on Ohm'r, but something is going on...

What can cause this

 

[dragonlady]

Could you post a pic? That could really help if we could see the poor little guy.

There could be a few different reasons this could be happening. Parameters could be off a bit - what are they currently? Does he have any sort of growth - maybe fungus or something gooey looking on them? He could have a parasite or an infection. Check out the pics at the bottom of this page - do they look like any of these? Illness

 

[MartinBr]

Here are some pictures and the water values.
The 2 first pictures are of Voltrata and the last one is Ohm'r

Ammonia: 0,006ppm
pH: 7.0
No2: 0,3 mg/l
No3: 20mg/l

I use a Zoo med 501 canister filter, and i also use airstone.
My substrate is sand and i have alot of plants in it.

I cant see any sign of fungus or an infection on the gills.

Sorry for the bad quality on the pictures. Will try to take some new one tomorrow.

 

[Kerry1968]

The gills look pretty good from what I can see. The most likely cause, in my opinion, is the other axolotl having a bite if you don't see any other signs of illness or fungus.

The are a couple of things you can do to stop this happening. Firstly, feed them at opposite ends of the tank, this will avoid fights over food and accidental biting (those gills can look a lot like worms!), make sure they have enough food, appropriate to size, age and temperature of the water.

A last resort if they are always taking chunks out of each other is to separate them, either with a tank divider if your tank is large enough, or in separate tanks. I've had to do this with my female, she has always been a biter and likes to bite gills and legs, so she lives in a different tank to the boys now.

Good luck!

By the way if the axolotls are juveniles it's likely they will grow out of biting each other.

 

[MartinBr]

I really dont think they are biting each other and there are no sign of fungus. Both of my axolotls gills have become alot less fluffy, then they used to be. I have sometimes spotted them flying around the tank curling from side to side scratching their gills with their back leg etc.

They are both at 17cm.

I uploaded som better quality pictures. This time just of Ohm'r. I also uploaded a picture of how their gills used too look like... I bet you can figure out whats what.

 

[dragonlady]

Okay, thanks for the pics and the additional information. Sounds like a parasite or maybe some planaria or something similar.

Have you seen any tiny white worms on the glass by chance? If so, these are planaria and happen when there are extra nutrients in the water - to get rid of them, just do a partial water change and do some extra housecleaning.

If not, it could just be some little internal bugger giving them a fit.

I would suggest salt baths for both. 1-2 tablespoons non-iodized salt (sea salt or aquarium salt) per liter of fresh dechlorinated water. Soak them for no more than 15 min. at a time. If you see them still acting crazy, then repeat the bath in 12 hours until they are better. Usually, 1 or 2 baths takes care of it.

Oh, and don't worry, those beautiful gills should be back to normal in no time.

 

[Kerry1968]

Sorry to butt in here, but I wouldn't recommend salt baths, they should only be used if there is definately fungus.

Try tea baths, they are gentler on the skin. It sounds like it could be parasitic if they are scratching their gills. My axolotls have occasionally scratched at their gills, but not had to treat them as yet the problem has gone away on its own.

 

[dragonlady]

I have found the salt baths to be quite effective in the removal of the problem. I have used this method many times and have seen it recommended many times. If the axolotls are left in the bath too long or if too much salt is used, the skin irritation could occur.

Tea baths are very well suited for skin irritations, this is true. I am not familiar with using these for parasites. This doesn't mean they won't work but I haven't seen this method recommended for this particular problem.

 

[MartinBr]

There are no sign of planaria either. Im going to try tea baths first, then if that dosent work i will have to bring in the arsenal and use salt baths. I look at salt baths as a really unpleasant experience for the axolotls and i dont want to exposed them to that if not needed.

How often should i do the tea baths?

 

[dragonlady]

I don't blame you for erring on the side of caution. Fridging may benefit your guys as well, it's been my experience that parasites don't like certain temperatures either. Just another thought for you.

In case you don't know, you can find the tea bath method midway down this page: Illness Pt. 2

Good luck, please keep us updated.

 

[Kerry1968]

Sorry Shannon, I bow to your greater knowledge on the subject!

 

[dragonlady]

Sorry Shannon, I bow to your greater knowledge on the subject!

Hi Kerry, no worries. Hey if tea baths prove successful - great! The bottom line is to just get the poor little things feeling better!

Do you have a recommendation for frequency? I couldn't answer that for Martin.

 

[MartinBr]

I gave both about a 10 min salth bath. How long should it take before i know if it helped? Should i do it again? How long does it take before their gills are growing?

 

[Erzs]

I don't think you'll know if it's helped or not until you see them scratching, then you'll know it's not helped at least!

I think Shannon recommended doing it 12hrs apart. So even if you see them scratching again soon it might not be advisable to do a repeat salt bath for another 12 hrs.

As for gill growth, I've seen differing lengths of time posted around the board. But as long as the water is good and they are eating a healthy amount they should grow back just fine.

I hope they both make a speedy recovery and I'm sure Shannon will be back for further advice soon. =]

 

[Crysta]

on growing gills, my nana has had a broken gill since I got her which would be quite a while ago, maybe two months plus. average is around one month, but as Erzs said there is no definite time, just be patient and provide the best conditions possible.

 

[Velaria]

Shannon once gave me some great advice: take the axolotls out of the tank, put a tank heater in the aquarium, and turn up the heat! What temperature did you say it should be, Shannon? And for how long?

This will kill all of the bad bacteria, but the good (cycled) bacteria will not be killed.

Then, take the heater out, let the water cool to normal room temperature, and put the axies back in!

-BUT- I wonder if everyone here is assuming that the cause of the wilting gill fimbrae is worse than it really is??? MartinBr said that he's using a canister filter AND an airstone. It sounds to me like this tank is HIGHLY oxygenated, and, as we know, axolotls use their gills to breathe! I wonder if the axie's gills are just adapting to his/her environment. I mean, the gills don't *need* to be very long if there's a lot of oxygen in the water. I wonder if the gills would grow back if you removed the air stone and tried to reduce the current of the filter's water flow ??

 

[MartinBr]

Thats a interesting theory! Im going to let them be with the airstone and canister filter as it is now for some weeks and see if i notice any changes. If not i will remove the air stone, it isnt much waterflow from the filter, its a zoo med 501 with a spraybar that points into the glass.

 

[melfly]

In my personal experience I did notice the gills thin out a little in the big filtered tank compared to unfiltered tubs mine were in when they were younger.

Make from this what you will...

Mel

 

[dragonlady]

I gave both about a 10 min salth bath. How long should it take before i know if it helped? Should i do it again? How long does it take before their gills are growing?

You can do a salt bath 10-15 min long. After taking them out of the bath, they may still scratch a bit, but you should see them settle down within hours if it was successful. If not, do another bath 12 hours after the first and since you only did it for 10 the first time, try 15 for the second (no longer). This second one should knock it out. If not, I would suggest adding a little holiday in the fridge.

As stated, gills all grow at different rates. I think how quickly fringes grow back will depend on the overall health of that particular axolotl. While they grow back the gill stalks pretty quickly, it seems to take more effort for them to grow back these fringes.

 

[rick]

I too have noticed the gills tend to thin out when placed in a larger filtered tank. If you want huge gills, use an air stone. I think the water current from your filter may be too strong. Just treating the animal with salt baths will only work temporarily, you need to treat the tank with a parasite guard before you place them back in it.