Illness/Sickness: Fungus Treatment Plan?

[Se]

Hello everyone!

Sorry for this being so long, but as none of the pictures I took turned out, I wanted to be as descriptive as possible to try to give you guys any information you'd need to answer my questions.

I just signed up to this forum when I noticed one of my axies has what I am pretty certain is a small white fungal infection on one of his legs, as in a slightly fuzzy white patch. (I found this about three days ago. He has two stumped front legs, and it was on one of these.) I separated him from my second one and put him in a tubberware container. He did not eat the day I put him in, but otherwise acted normal, if a bit sluggish at times. I then found what appeared to be two tiny patches of fungal infections on my second axie, so I decided to treat them both, as the pet store said the medicine wouldn't hurt the other one even if he was healthy after all.

Both axolotls are young, and I've had them about 4 months. Their names are Stumpy and Freckles, respectively. (Both are wild types, although Stumpy might be a melanoid (I'm not sure entirely) with Stumpy being a darker grey, almost solid in coloration, and Freckles being light grey and speckled.) They are both young, but I forget their exact age. I don't think they can be older than 6 months, and they aren't old enough for me to tell what sex they each are yet.

These were gifts from someone who recommended I go here for help, so here I am. She also recommended salt baths and medicine, as well as testing my water again.

Now, I understand about salt baths thanks to the tutorial, but I have a few questions about them/how to go about it, especially with the medicine and two axolotls.

Since the nitrate levels in my tank were higher than they should be (I had my tank water tested at my pet store (which used to sell axolotls), but I forget the exact levels, and all other things such as ammonia levels were fine), I followed their recommendation and did a 50% tank water change (as my tank water was also slightly discolored), and added the dosage of "Prime Freshwater & Saltwater" conditioner, made by Seachem. I also treat my water with Aqueon Water Conditioner, both as per directions.

After putting the conditioners in the water, I moved both axolotls back to the tank from their plastic containers, as both the pet store owner and the one who gave me the axolotls said there is no point in keeping them separated when both have the infections. The water temperature right now is about 68 degrees F, which it has been consistently at except for one day about a week ago, when I accidentally left the room heater on before leaving, and the tank got up to about 72 for about 2-3 hours. I changed some of the water (as I had no water bottles prepared at the time) and brought it back down to where it is now, although I admit I did not read up before doing so and it did cool down faster than it was supposed to, according to the main site. Since then, however, it has been consistent. They are in a standard 10 gallon tank with an Aqueon filter. (Just until they grow to a larger size.)

Now, the infections are small patches, and oddly enough the one on Stumpy's leg shrunk after a day in the plastic container which was only treated with a little of the Aqueon water conditioner.

I have added the Prime mixture to the tank first, because I didn't want to go and treat them with medicine only to find that the infections returned due to the nitrate levels, I have am unsure what to do next, exactly.

The medicine I have is "Pimafix: Antifungal Fish Remedy" which the pet store worker said would be easy on the axolotl's skin and not damage their coats too badly or be too harsh on them compared to other medicines. He said to wait before using it in the tank after adding the Prime, but I forgot to ask for how long.

If anyone can recommend how long I need to wait before adding in the antifungal medicine, I would appreciate it.

I'm also wondering if I should go ahead with the salt baths as well, or wait and see if just the medicine helps? If I do the salt baths, how many days should I do them for as I didn't see that mentioned in the tutorial.

I'm also curious if there is an average time that fungal infections tend to take to heal, although I noticed the medicine said to continue treatments for 7 days or up to two weeks, so I assume it's a slow process.

At the moment, both are acting normal and healthy and I expect them to eat tonight. (I feed them Hikari Sinking Carnivorous Pellets.)

The only problem I have had with them health wise before this was that they would sometimes, every 2-3 days, spit up undigested pellets (or poop out pretty undigested pellet powder) at night, but they never lost weight, acted sluggish, or sick in any way. Really, the only one that ever seemed to be stressed was Freckles, and he seems an odd cause since Stumpy has never been as skittsh as he is (unless Freckles knocks into him).

I'm not sure if this is a health problem, but Freckles' gills have always been more upright than Stumpy's (the difference is about the same as the two albino axolotls labeled as belonging to the Indiana University Axolotl Colony on this page).

I think the spit up pellets, and the fact that I found some about two weeks ago stashed under one of their decos, is what caused the higher nitrate levels, and I am guessing what caused the fungi as well, although that could have been from the stress of the temperature change I think. Freckles has always been a bit skittsh, but for about a week he has finally begun to get used to me feeding them and even snaps at the pellets when I put them in, as Stumpy has done since the day I got him.

I know I've made a lot of mistakes with them (such as not thinking to clear out their deco when checking for leftover food, forgetting the heater, etc), but I'd still appreciate any help. I'm very new to these guys but ofc I love them dearly and want them to be as healthy as possible.

Again, sorry for no pictures, but lately the two just have no cooperated and they turn out quite blurry, or not showing off the infections at all.


Thank you for any help and information!

 

[HayleyK]

Pet stores want you to buy products. Axolotls aren't fish so an anti fungal fish remedy is unsuitable. People on this forum get by just fine with salt baths. I wouldn't add any of that stuff in with them. As for the length of time, it depends. I got rid of a fungus in two days, some people might take a week. Just be sure to continue at least two days after it's not visible to ensure it's gone.

Man, that was long to read... Didn't read it all and only addressed what stuck out to me.

 

[Se]

Okay, thank you very much for the help! And sorry it was so long; I kept seeing people not post enough about their sick pets so I posted a lot.

 

[HayleyK]

I was reading this at work when I replied hehe naughty me.

It would really help with a picture as it might not be a fungus, it could be a slime coat problem if it's not clear in the photo, can you try and get one?

How often and how much water do you change?

 

[auntiejude]

Yes, poop and food probably caused your high nitrates. Lesson learnt, no real harm done.
You mentioned a heater - what heater? Your axie tank should be 15-20C you don't need a heater. If you're using one that may be what caused the fungus - heat damaged gills or skin allowing fungus to get in.

Talking of fungus, please do not use fish treatments on axies. Axies absorb chemicals through their skin, and very few medications are suitable. Check axolotl.org for a list of safe meds. Salt baths are the best way to treat axie fungus. A photo would help determine whether its fungus or somethings else.

 

[Se]

Thank you for the help!

I'll try to get some photos tomorrow (as it's quite late here) but I'll have to see if they cooperate. Neither of them certainly did earlier today, and they all came out terribly blurry, but I'll try again tomorrow.

As for heater, I meant the one in the room they are in. I was having it on a very low setting at night as, being in the room to the corner of the house to keep the tank overall cool; we had hit a cold snap at the time, and I was more worried about the temperature in the tank dropping too fast while I was asleep. Then when I left for work I forgot and their temperature went up as the room warmed.

Speaking of salt baths, is it hard to find declorinated water? I live in a small town, so it's not like there's any specialty stores around. Are there any sort of alternatives you can use? I heard spring water but also that you want to avoid ones with certain chemicals in them, and to avoid the Arrowhead brand specifically, but I'm a bit worried as to which ones to avoid as I can't seem to find a list.

 

[auntiejude]

Speaking of salt baths, is it hard to find declorinated water? .

What do you have in your tank?
It should be tap water with dechlorinator... thats dechlorinated water.

 

[Se]

Oh! I thought I had to use store bought water that had been also purified somehow, since I kept seeing mention of spring water. For the tank, I have regular tap water that is declorinated with the declorinator. Silly me.

Oh and I do my tank water changes about once a week, and about 30% of the water, although sometimes I had to do more (never more than about 45%) if the water looked particularly discolored.

 

[Petersgirl]

Don't worry. We all make mistakes

Dechlorinated water is just tap water treated with dechlorinator and left to stand for at least 12 hours (this ensures that all the chlorine/chloramines are treated and removed). Some axolotl keepers have bottles full of water around the house dechlorinating - me included!

Hope to see a picture soon. It may be fungus or it might be a slime coat issue, like Auntiejude said (my motto at the moment is, 'wait to see what Auntiejude writes first because it may save me a post!' Hehe.)
A picture will help us to be sure. Also, do you have any access to earthworms? If you're having problems with pellets fouling your water, then earthworms are a great solution. They're packed full of all the nutrients axxies need, and I've found they can nurse very thin or sickly axxies into plump, glowing health - I haven't any scientific proof, but my two have done wonderfully on them.

 

[Se]

I definitely appreciate all the help!

And thanks for clarifying on the declorinator.

I tried to get as good of pictures as I could. I'm sorry that the quality isn't great, as I used my cell phone camera but so far with a high quality camera it's been unable to find a focus for them.

Last night they didn't eat. I also know there is some pellet leftovers on the floor of the tank/in the water (and on Stumpy as I noticed when taking the pictures after he had moved around). I caught them at ok positions so I wanted to get the pictures before I cleaned the tank, which I did with a turkey baster right after. (Also don't worry; the water itself isn't murky but my tank loves to fog up on the outside a bit. I've been trying to keep my room cooler.)

Thanks for the feedback on the earthworms: I might be able to get a hold of some of those. Is it safe to buy those from a fishing store or do you need to get ones from a pet store to avoid contaminant problems?

Oddly enough Stumpy's leg still looks a bit better than it did. The white part used to look faintly fuzzy and was almost entirely opaque.

The other spots I'm worried about are the squarish whiter one on Freckles' tail and his front right foot, which appears to have a very thin transparent white coat that might be slightly fuzzy. He has a few spots on his tail/body that I don't remember from before this week, but I could very much be looking for problems when there are none, as I can't say I was checking every inch of them like I am since I saw Stumpy's leg change.

 

[layna]

looking at the pictures i cant personally see any fungus.
As said above you shouldnt use chemicals on axies.
Am i right in thinking you add Prime Freshwater & Saltwater conditioner and Aqueon Water Conditioner?
These are both dechlorinators and both do the same thing, your essentially double dosing your tank, which isnt good, thats why they have dosages
What your seeing on your axies may well be a build up of slime coat because of the extra dechlorinator, use one of the other but not both together.

 

[Se]

The only double dosing they could have received was due to me adding the Prime, which I was told would lower the nitrate levels, and only added in when I did a water change yesterday. I am pretty positive that I did not use the other water conditioner with it at all. The white patch on Stumpy's leg formed before I got the Prime, anyway.

Assuming it is just a build up of slime coat, what would be a good way to help them with that then? I assume salt water baths would not help, and could hurt a healthy axolotl.

I've only ever followed directions on the dosages for the original water conditioner I used, with was I believe 5ml for a 10 gallon tank (but I checked the bottle every time, so if I am misremembering the dosage right now as I am typing I know I used the correct one when dosing for water changes). (Both the Aqueon conditioner and the Prime say they are safe to use in up to 5x the normal dosage, but I never did more than the exact dosage it said to on the bottles.)

Would a build up of the slime coat cause them to not eat, or would that be due to the chemical imbalance in the tank that I assume the Prime hasn't fixed yet in such a short time.

 

[auntiejude]

The first one shows a tail with some lovely shiney iridophores, the second one a cute axie with fluffy gills, the third a stump with some pale healing skin. But no fungus.

Healing skin sometimes looks very pale - opaque and with no obvious blood vessels - and a lot of people mistake it for a fungal infection. But I can't see anything that looks like fungus - can you edit the pictures to show where you think the fungus is (add an arrow)?

 

[layna]

I apologise then but reading

and added the dosage of "Prime Freshwater & Saltwater" conditioner, made by Seachem. I also treat my water with Aqueon Water Conditioner, both as per directions

Made me think you added both to the tank, hence my conclusion

 

[Se]

Oh I see! I'm sorry then; that was totally my mistake. I'm not sure why I wrote that. I'm sorry for the confusion. On the off chance I'm misremembering now, would a water change today help, or would it be best to leave it? I'd defintiely rather play it safe, as I was quite frazzled yesterday.

As for what I was worried on the fungus, it was those shiny patches on the speckled one, and the white one on the darker axolotl's leg. I tried submitting pictures, but I got some sort of token error and haven't been able to get them to be accepted (and am unable to edit the other post's pictures to replace them with the edited ones.) However, the spots I was concerned about were exactly the ones you said, the spots on the speckled one's tail and the white spot on the darker one's leg.

Having never had fish or axolotls before this, they are quite alien to me in all their little quirks. I'm glad to hear it sounds like it is not a fungus problem then. (As a side note, I'm glad to hear the one's gills are good, as I only ever had the other's to compare them too and the darker lotl's have always been much fluffier.)

Thank you both so much and sorry for the problems and confusion!

 

[HayleyK]

If you get confused/worried - shine a light. If they're pretty and reflective it's an iridophore and part of their skin. If the skin is cloudy looking like what a blind eye looks like (that milky look) it's slime coat problems and can be treated with a tea bath. If it's fuzzy and actually looks like a spore, it's a fungus and needs salt baths. It kind of remind me of the white mould you find on bread, if that's an easier description.

In your case I would tea bath. Brew a cup of black tea, strictly black, no infused teas, no green teas just black. Allow tea to cool and mix it in with a bucket of 10L treated water. Allow the axolotl to sit in the bath. You can also add the tea into the tank which will turn it yellow caused by tannins, like driftwood. With water changes the yellow will start to diminish.

 

[Se]

Okay, thank you so much! The light idea makes sense, and I will definitely use it in the future.

Can tea in the tea pouches work or does it need to be specifically loose leaf? And how long should I do the tea bath for, is it 10-15 minutes like it is for salt baths or a shorter/longer period?

 

[HayleyK]

I use tea bags for the convenience I left mine in there for between 10-15 but it's not harsh on their skin like salt baths so I would be so strict on the time to bath them. You can add it to the tank like I mentioned before, but it is diluted a hell of a lot more too so again I think the timing is pretty loose.

 

[Elise]

I get the sense you want to do too much in a very short period of time. That combined with you being a bit frazzled over the last couple of days could lead to mistakes and more problems. Especially as there doesn't appear to be an immediate treatment necessary at the moment.

A tea bath wouldn't hurt and I won't dispute the recommendation. However, you could always just let them be for a few days and monitor their condition. If you are not seeing an improvement, then you can start tea baths. I think for now just figuring out your tank water should be sufficient.

Also to give my preference for tea baths, I would add it directly to the tank water as handling the animal could damage the slime coat further, leading to sores.

 

[Se]

All right, thank you so much! I'll try to get the appropriate teabags as soon as possible. Hopefully the two will start eating again soon. I'm glad all is probably better than I initially thought with them, though.

Elise, that makes sense. I'll definitely give them time, too. I was worried that, if it was a fungal infection, I had to get rid of it asap or they could be harmed seriously. Either way, it will take me a few days to get the tea bags, so I'll have to just let them be and monitor them for the time being.

Thank you so much everyone for your help! I really appreciate your help, time, and patience.