Help me set up a newt paradise!

[AeonMapa]

Ok, so I've been feeling like a huge hypocrite lately telling people to put their newts in 10 gallon tanks while I'm housing 5 newts in a 9 gallon. If you remember, about a month ago I introduced two pregnant cherry shrimp. Well they hatched and the number of baby shrimp is staggering. They aren't taking up much space yet, but if they are all going to reach the size of my adults, the tank will be stuffed in them. I've removed my minnows some time ago to keep the bioload down, but I am aware my tank is horribly crowded. The newts don't seem to be adversely affected, and you've all seen pictures of how healthy they are, but I really want them in a larger home. I'd like to set up a very beautiful home for them, and I'd really appreciate the input of the more experienced keepers, especially those with planted tank experience. Please bear with all the questions i'll be asking, as I want to provide the best habitat possible. Thank you in advance for the help, let's make us a newt paradise

So first I have some questions about the volume of the tank:
1. How many gallons is recommended? I must admit though that I probably have no space for anything over 20 gallons :/
2. I'm planning to have a custom tank built, since you can get them done for under 20$ here! I want to go for a larger footprint than depth. What is a good depth? Right now mine are kept at about 20 inches depth, I love seeing them swim, but a wide tall tank might be too heavy for my desk. Would a depth of about 12 inches still be optimal?

Next I have some questions about land areas.
3. Having a larger space, I'd like to create a elaborate planted land area as well. How does one go about creating one in the middle of a 1 foot deep tank? I was thinking about putting a garden pot, but I'd really prefer something 100% natural.
4. Would terrestrial mosses, bamboo plants and vines be alright to keep on the land area?
5. Would it be better to skip the island all together and just go for floating mats? It would be nice to have planted land area, but optimal conditions is my goal.

Next some planting questions:
6. All my plants are currently potted but I'd like to go for a soil planted tank for this one. I've been keeping an unfiltered tub outside with a soil bottom and about 30 plants growing where they can get sunlight. I've kept a gourami and some danios in it, and it's built a population of pond snails. It's been established for 3 months now, and all the animals inside it are 100% healthy. So the question is can I take the soil and the plants from this tub and use it in my tank? I don't care if pond snails hitch a ride.
7. If the above soil is not appropriate for use, how to go about preparing soil for tank use?
8. Suggested plant species?

Now some substrate questions: This is what I'm most unsure about.
9. Is there any special maintenance required for a soil substrate? Stirring, vaccuming, etc.
10. I'd like to cover my soil with another substrate, since it soil is easily stirred up and clouds the tank. I was thinking about holding it down with a thin layer of sand, then a layer of the white pebbles and river rocks I'm already using. (I was thinking that it would make cleaning easier, since I'd just have to vaccum the pebbles and rocks) Would this be a suitable substrate? Or would it be very difficult to maintain?
11. Recommended substrates? I really have my heart set on a soil bottom for plants, but I'm willing to listen.

Tank cycling and filtration questions:
12. So if I use the aforementioned soil an plants, as well as the sponge filter, rocks and plants from my established tank, do I even need to cycle the tank? I'll obviously keep it running for 2 days after set up to make sure everything is fine, and to let the water clear, but can I move the animals in after that?
13. Can this set-up remain unfiltered? I know the newts won't need one, but I plan to keep my colony of shrimp there as well and they might need the air? I plan to put an INSANE amount of plants. I do have my established sponge filter which barely moves the water, and I use primarily as an aerator.
14. Currently, when my tank gets some sediments floating about, I run the power filter for an hour to clear it. What can I do about sediments in the new tank? Should I purchase a filter for this?

Cooling questions:

15. Will more water hold temp better?
16. Any insulation suggestions? I was planning to cover only the back of the tank though, but maybe something I can put under?

Décor questions:
17. Lots of driftwood and bogwood. Maybe some large hollow bamboo tubes for hides. Everything is treated beforehand of course. Is this suitable?
18: 3d background on the inside of the tank or paper stuck to the outside?

ANTI SCAPE! questions:
Ok so I've had two "impossible" escapes so I wanna do this right.
19. Will a wooden top with a two inch rim be suitable to prevent all escape? Or should I install a screen? I'd be willing to make the rim 3 inches if it prevents using a screen. Would would wood be too easy for them to climb around on?
20. Say I put a land area in the middle of the tank, and on that land area I put some bamboo plants that are tall enough to grow above the rim of the tank. This will be about six inches from the edge in every direction. Is this an escape hazard?

These are my basic questions, I wouldn't want to overwhelm you all any more than I might already have. Answers to any or even all of the questions is super appreciated, as are any suggestions you might have. I'm hoping to set this up around November

 

[JoshBA]

20 gallons seems like a good size, and a 12in. height would be fine. If the tank is only 12 in, I would use most/all of the tank volume for water. You could, however, have a larger, taller, tank built and utilize the upper portion of the tank for your anticipated land area (and have the rest water). That way you would be able to have ~20 gallons of water along with a large land area (so your desk may be able to to support it). I have a 55gal tank (4ft long, 21in tall) that I built a large land area with soil and only have it half filled. In that size of a tank, I would suggest designing the land area like a shelf, where it is suspended right at the water line (silicone to the side of the tank, etc). Cork bark is a great building material for this. In this way, you wouldn't have to take up a lot of the water space or have a lowered water level. Floating cork bark covered in a thick mat of java moss also looks pretty cool, and is much easier to accomplish.
Sorry I've never done a dirt planted tank, but fast growing plants would be your best bet (elodea, water sprite, sagittaria, etc)
Decorations and plants from your previous tank would have plenty of bacteria to have your tank cycled, although more frequent water changes for the first few weeks would be a good idea. Its probably a good idea to have an aerator to prevent stagnant water, especially with a dirt planted tank.
Any top that completely covers the entire top of the tank will prevent escape.
I'll try to bring up some pics of what I did for a land area in my paludarium.

 

[Azhael]

I´ll address the questions i think i can contribute something to.

1. For 5 H.orientalis a 20 gallon is perfectly suitable and sufficiently large.
2.Depth is not particularly important and 12 inches is completely ok.
3. This looks beautiful but it is a waste of space for this species, it won´t get used. If you want to do this type of thing, use a method that takes up as little volume as possible because you want to maximize the amount of water. Floating mats can work very nicely. The biggest plus of these is that plants with aerial leaves and submerged roots can be excellent biological filtration.
4. The only restrictions are size i suposse, otherwise, anything like that is fine.
5. you can combine both. A floating piece of cork bark can be planted with the right choice of plants and turn out quite beautiful.
6. Should be fine.

12. Yes, the tank will need to cycle because it´s not fully stablished. However, you should be ok putting the newts in without it being fully cycled since there are already some bacteria, but most importantly, large amounts of live plants. With partial water changes and some monitoring you should have no issues.
13. No mechanical filtration is required. The plants and the bacteria will provide all the biological filtration that 5 newts and some shrimp could possibly require.
14. This is up to you, but i wouldn´t. Currents are not an Hypselotriton´s best friend.

15. Yes. Thermal stability increases with volume but it goes both ways. It will keep cool but also warm, for longer.
16. Rather than insulation you might want to try fans blowing on the surface. This should bring the temp down 2-3ºC.
17. Watch out for places they could get stuck in. This species usually prefers hiding among dense vegetation rather than inside decorations, but they could anyway so make sure they are safe and that they allow you to locate the newts.

18. Your choice. My only recommendation is that if you make a 3D backgroud, it shouldn´t take a lot of space.

19. Wide rims work, but mesh is better. If you use a rim, no cables or plants should provide a route of scape. They won´t cling upside down to almost any material but wood is definitely ok.
20. See point 19 xD This looks very nice but you need to be very careful.

As for the soil related questions i didn´t attempt to answer, there are some threads that cover the Walstad method quite well, look for them. Molch had a great thread about this.

 

[AeonMapa]

Thanks for the input! I did read up on the walstad method and will be going that route. Another question, if a tubifex worm escapes into the soil, what will happen? Would it actually be beneficial as they will keep the soil aerated?

 

[Ian T]

I've just read the Walstad book too and the idea seems to be that excess food, dead worms etc are fine as the products of their decomposition feed the plants. I guess moderation is the key!
Apparently you shouldn't ever clean the substrate as the mulm is important to balance in the tank. I tried to pick a substrate that would still look ok when not clean..

 

[AeonMapa]

So I've been doing a lot of reading and have decided to go with the walstad method. I'm going to go with a soil substrate using the prepared soil that I mentioned above. Hopefully this soil will be rich with bacteria. One inch of that, with a small bag of fluorite sand mixed in. The next layer of substrate will be a mixed coarse sand, with varying grain sizes and colors where I will root my plants. One inch of that. Over that goes a variety of driftwood pieces. I will include lots of floating plant mats as land areas, the kinds with emergent leaves. I plan on planting a carpe of plants in the front, for a "lawn" look. Anyone have experience with these? Also I plan on planting some bamboo, but will keep them far from the edges.

For feeding I plan on putting a small clay pot on the tank bottom before the substrate so it makes a "feeding hole" I'll fill around this pot, and put any worms in there to be eaten. I presume that having a few tuubifex in the soil should be fine, and might actually add to the completeness of the ecosystem.

How would one go about transferring all the little tank critters? I mean limpets, microworms, baby snails and shrimp.

 

[Azhael]

Be careful about the depth of substrate. Too deep and conditions will become anaerobic and dangerous. Pockets of anaerobic bacteria can produce toxic compounds which might be released. It´s kind of a "swamp effect".
You should try to keep the total depth as minimal as possible to avoid this.

The micro-critters will hitch a ride with the plants and decorations.

 

[AeonMapa]

Yes, I am aware of that, but the Walstad method seems to recommend 1 inch of soil, then 1 inch or less of capping substrate. Would 1 inch of soil, then about 1/2 inch of sand, just enough to cover the soil, still stay properly aerated? I know that the plant roots will help a lot. Also if I mix in some whole red coral in the soil, will the spaces provided by these allow for better circulation?

Some of my critters probably will hitch a ride on the plants. For the shrimp I guess i'll just empty out the old tank of decors and then dump the water with them in it into the new tank.

How can I ensure that the bottom dwelling plants will get enough light even with the floating mats? I'm thinking of buying 2 LED desk lamps so that I can angle them to supply light to every plant.

 

[Ian T]

If you plant lots of fast growing plants presumably the roots will prevent anaerobic conditions, under the feeding dish could be a problem though I guess...

I've just done exactly the same and the plants do seem to manage under floating cover. I did find that one particular plant died off throughout the tank but I think if you put in a range of plants and just let nature take its course.

Shining LED lights in from the side sounds complicated and surely all the plants will then grow at unnatural angles towards the light. Could be interesting though..!

I've been very pleased with my Walstad although when I tested the water the Nitrate levels were quite high, I had assumed all the plant growth would prevent that... I've got plants growing on cork bark islands too and still high nitrates...

 

[Azhael]

I only mentioned the possibility of anaerobic conditions as a precaution, i´ve never attempted a walstad tank so i have no personal experience with it nor can i give any significant advice, i just thought it´s a point that needs to be made just in case.

 

[Ian T]

You may well be right, I'm only 6 weeks in....

 

[AeonMapa]

I've been reading more into the walstad method and it's a good thing I have my outdoor plant bin! At least when I start the tank the plants will have been well established and the soil would have lost extra nutrients. Would it be alright to put a thin layer of earthworm compost at the very bottom as extra fertilizer?

Is there a limit to the number of plants an aquarium can support? Aside from space and lighting

 

[AeonMapa]

Ok so I'm about halfway ready for this project, the plants are all growing in the bin to acclimatize to my water conditions. I have cabombas, crypts, swords, Hydrocotyl, Java Moss, Java fern, Vallisneria, and I'm looking to get my hands on some Cuba. I will also have several mats of floating plants and for a "land area" I'm planning to get a bathroom soap dish (with suckers on the side, attaching them to the side of the tank and capping with soil, and planting with some terrestrial vines. I'm planning to do a a rockface hard scape, with vertical rock faces on one or either side, with lots of mossed driftwood and of course live plants. I have a few more questions:
Substrate
1. I'll be using triangles shaped rocks to create rock faces, i'll lay them on the floor in a way that the vertical side shows, then slopes down to the back. I'll fill these up with substrate. Problem is, this areas will require substrate about 3-4 inches deep.. Will using pure soil get to anaerobic? What about soil mixed with gravel, or with sponges at intervals to keep circulation present?

2. The forest outside my office has a fresh water stream that has a very attractive clay bottom. I was hoping to harvest some clay and sand from here. How can I test it's aquarium safety? (I've thrown a handful into my outdoor bin and it had no effect on the fish, shrimp or plants.

Volume
3. Will 15 gallons be sufficient? Only 4 newts left :/

Plants:
4. Any one grow hydrocotyl before? Mine grow great underwater but I'd like some lily pads. Are there any floating pads suitable for my tank and how do you go about planting some?

Tank Mates
5. About 50 red cherry shrimp, and 20 red ramshorn snails would be fine right? Will ramshorn snails eat the plants?

Also
6. Are newts cCFBN capable of digging through sand and soil? I'm sure at one point a tubifex worm will escape, and I'm wondering if the newts can dig through the soil cap and make a huge mess?

 

[Azhael]

As long as the sand/clay is very fine, it should be ok. You sure it´s clay, though? Usully what you find in streams is silt.

15 gallons is adequate for 4 newts.

I have 3 species of Hydrocotile and they are all fantastic plants. My favourite, though is H.leucocephala. It grows floating at the surface and when it becomes dense enough, it creates emerged mats. The effect is beautiful and the newts clearly like it. It does require trimming and maintenance as it grows very, very fast.

Planorbarius sp. will eat plants if they run out of other foods. They can do quite a lot of damage if you have a lot of them. As long as they are bussy with other stuff, they are fine, though.

Back when i used substrates i did see my adult female moving gravel (yeah, i know, this was way back then) to get to some scrap of food. However, i doubt this could be much of an issue.

 

[AeonMapa]

I would guess it was clay since it's a dark red/brown color? There are some blood red rocks in the stream that come apart quite easily into soil as well. I'm planning to get all of my wood, rocks, and some substrate from this area to keep a natural feel. how would I know if it was silt?

What other foods can I feed the snails?

I've redone my 5 gallon tropical fish tank recently to practice the Walstad method, and one week in, the little algae that has begun to show up is already receding, so I'm excited to set up one for the newts soon!

For lighting, I do have a stand up lamp with three fixtures. Would three 20 watt bulbs be sufficient lighting? The bulbs will be raised above the water edge by 6, 12 and 18 inches. each fixture has a independent swivel so I can angle the lighting to get various shading effects and light levels. Will this be ok for the plants? What kind of bulb would you suggest buying?

I know this has departured little from newt care, and more into set-up territory

 

[Azhael]

As far as i know, and i´m no geologist, silt is supossed to be composed of larger particles than clay and i think it contains fewer metals¿? If what you have is redish then it might be clay. I only commented on it because i´m not used to seeing clay in streams but i can almost always find silt.
Clay might dirty your water if disturbed, silt shouldn´t. Silt feels more like extremely fine sand.

The snails will eat almost anything, from left-over foods (worms, pellets, bloodworms, etc) to cucumber, carrots, spinach, any dead plants...

I can´t help with the lighting, i know next to nothing about the subject. All i know is my largest tank (20 gallons i think) has about 24 W total and it works just fine...The other tanks have even less and they too do well. Three 20W bulbs for a 15gallon tank sounds like extreme overkill to me, but then again, as i said, i know next to nothing about lighting.

 

[Chinadog]

I can't help much with the technical side of lighting for planted aquariums but i would highly recommend the bright white LED lighting fixtures that are available, especially for newts because the heat output is extremely low. Mine is easily capable of penetrating the layer of floating plants that newts love so much down to the ones growing in the substrate 40cm below! The one i bought was a BeamsWork double bright 3840 lumen (no i don't know what that means, either!) it was quite expensive but there are no bulbs to change and it has a day and an evening setting that gives a much dimmer light almost like dusk which is a nice feature!

 

[AeonMapa]

Thanks for the help guys! I was thinking of the 3 bulbs cos I read that you should have 3-4 watts per gallon, but now I think that's the recommendation for CO2 injected tanks. I will definitely look into LED lighting eventually, but will go for the bulbs for my lamp right now, since it's already there and I don't have too much budget for the project and light fixtures cost quite a bit. Just to give you guys an idea of how cheap I can pull off a set up here in the Philppines:

I'll use US dollars as a reference

15 Gallon glass tank- $6
Aquatic plants, cabomba, swords, crypts, sprites 5 bundles of cuttings for $1
Java moss 3 cups for $1 nicer plants like hydrocotly $1 per bundle. (although plants like cuba go for $5 a pot)
Soil/Substrate $1-2 per bag
Driftwood and rocks I find in the forest (though they are sold at @ $4 + for cured pieces)

In total the set up can easily cost less than $20!

Anyways, I think I have most of the info I need, I will continue to raise my plants and collect hardscaping materials, will be ready to set up on schedule, around November

 

[JoshBA]

Wow, those are insanely low prices!
I also use an LED light designed for planted tanks ("Finnex Fugeray", but I'm not sure if you have it where you are). It grows plants great, and also diffuses the heat above the fixture, and not into the tank. I've used screw-in led lamp bulbs (replacement for cfl's) on vivariums and they're pretty decent for growing plants.
I'm interested in your idea of a clay/silt substrate. It seems like that would be the most natural substrate for newts, although it would probably be the hardest to maintain. Perhaps commercially available products like bentanite clay or art clay mixed with play sand would work. Now I'm tempted to try this in the future...

 

[AeonMapa]

I'm not going to use pure clay as the top substrate level, ever little movement would cause a cloud! I will however mix it into the soil, and using the small sand and gravel from the stream(also made of clay) as a cap. This is all just in theory, I'm planning to set up a small jar with these substrates to test. I'll post lots of picks and findings once I get started!