Help with IDing my salamanders

[auntiejude]

I got 2 'tiger salamanders' a few weeks ago, they were both sold to me as A.tigrinum but I'm not sure they are exactly the same species or subspecies.

Can anyone suggest whether they are or not? I know there is some variation in patterns within a species, but I would like some other opinions:
Left: Izzy, female, orginally bought in Hamm 2 years ago
Right: Dug, probably male, again from Hamm this year, not quite fully grown (he doesn't like being clean).

 

[sde]

It is hard to tell with the male being covered in dirt. I am not too good with IDs on tiger sals, but I would say they are different species? Maybe someone more experienced will chime in.
Also, did you buy them from the same person? And did he say where they were collected?

 

[auntiejude]

These are both CB, both from German stock, I don't know if it the same breeder though.
Problem with Dug is he doesn't like being clean!

 

[sde]

These are both CB, both from German stock, I don't know if it the same breeder though.
Problem with Dug is he doesn't like being clean!

Good to hear they are CB, I just assumed they weren't since not very many captive breeding have occurred.
Dug, haha, that's a clever name.

 

[Azhael]

You could try contacting whoever you got them from and see if you can track any information about the parents...best scenario is that you get some general locality data.
The trouble with tiger salamanders is that intrapopulation variation is very large and two siblings could potentially look very different in terms of pattern. If you see images of wild tiger collections from (supossedly) a single site, you can see substantial pattern variation.

 

[jAfFa CaKe]

Its hard to tell, don't take my word for this but Dug might be A. mavourtium. Maybe.

 

[auntiejude]

Its hard to tell, don't take my word for this but Dug might be A. mavourtium. Maybe.

Thats the thought I had, but I don't have much experience with salamanders.

Dug, haha, that's a clever name.

Yeah, we're not exactly inspiring with names, we have Dug (who likes to bury himself) and Izzy (who chases us round the room - taken from a kids' TV show tag line 'Izzy wizzy lets get busy!' )

You could try contacting whoever you got them from and see if you can track any information about the parents...best scenario is that you get some general locality data.

We're pretty sure Izzy is an Eastern Tiger (A. tigrinum), but all we could find out about Dug was that he's a tiger salamander of some sort - the place we got him from couldn't find the breeder details. All I know is he was bought at Hamm this year, CB from a breeder in Germany.

 

[Boomsloth]

How big is the cb breeding of tiger sals in Europe? Is it possible to mix and match tigers from different regions?

 

[auntiejude]

I know most tiger species can hybridise (they were once considered to be all the same species). There is a big(ish) breeding community in Europe centering around Germany where the big reptile and phib expos are held.

A. tigrinum has been bred successfully several times in Germany, A. mavortium too as they are allegedly easier to breed.

 

[Boomsloth]

Well that makes it difficult. I've been considering getting tiger sals myself but around here it's hard to find other than ordering 50+ from a bait shop.

 

[Azhael]

In the US John succeeded in producing a large batch of CB A.m.mavortium, and in Europe, as Antiejude said, there have been several breedings in several countries which have resulted in large numbers of CB animals being available.