How big does tank need to be for filterless???

[Autistic Catholic]

I've heard 30 gallons is big enough but the Reddit mafia told me that was insufficient. Then again, the Reddit mafia is also very dogmatic and will tell you any size of gravel substrate is going to be instant death to an axolotl. Then again, the Reddit mafia also will choose to mock people who have sick axolotls after they've been given bad information from a pet store rather than help them so I'm not sure the Reddit mafia is a great source of information anymore.

I'm leaning toward either having a sand substrate or a mixed substrate of pea-size gravel and mud. I know experienced axie owners on here use gravel in their substrate though I think they've also said it might be best to bypass if one's a beginner. I keep thinking about getting a fish-tank but have yet to put effort into it at this point. I just want to know more about the set-up and I'm leaning toward filter-less at this point, though I've also read that attention to the water-quality needs to be factored in a lot more than in an established tank with a filter.

TIA.
AC

 

[wolfen]

I've heard 30 gallons is big enough but the Reddit mafia told me that was insufficient. Then again, the Reddit mafia is also very dogmatic and will tell you any size of gravel substrate is going to be instant death to an axolotl. Then again, the Reddit mafia also will choose to mock people who have sick axolotls after they've been given bad information from a pet store rather than help them so I'm not sure the Reddit mafia is a great source of information anymore.

I'm leaning toward either having a sand substrate or a mixed substrate of pea-size gravel and mud. I know experienced axie owners on here use gravel in their substrate though I think they've also said it might be best to bypass if one's a beginner. I keep thinking about getting a fish-tank but have yet to put effort into it at this point. I just want to know more about the set-up and I'm leaning toward filter-less at this point, though I've also read that attention to the water-quality needs to be factored in a lot more than in an established tank with a filter.

TIA.
AC

for a tank to be filterless it would have to be large with the main occupants being plants then a clean up crew and then lastly an axolotl, this is because a filter doesn't just remove the chemicals in the water ie.. ammonia, nitrite, it also remove dirt and debris from the water column as well.
using a substrate and rocks etc can allow bacteria to be housed in areas other than the filter meaning that the filter size can be reduced and be used solely for debris removal along with water clarification.
the easiest example of filterless environments are lakes and ponds, although the water is healthy and balanced with a good eco-system the water tends to be dark and cloudy from debris and dirt in the water.
in short yes it can be done but unless you like cloudy water you are going to need a filter.

 

[Autistic Catholic]

for a tank to be filterless it would have to be large with the main occupants being plants then a clean up crew and then lastly an axolotl, this is because a filter doesn't just remove the chemicals in the water ie.. ammonia, nitrite, it also remove dirt and debris from the water column as well.
using a substrate and rocks etc can allow bacteria to be housed in areas other than the filter meaning that the filter size can be reduced and be used solely for debris removal along with water clarification.
the easiest example of filterless environments are lakes and ponds, although the water is healthy and balanced with a good eco-system the water tends to be dark and cloudy from debris and dirt in the water.
in short yes it can be done but unless you like cloudy water you are going to need a filter.

I'm more concerned about the animal. Obviously, to use shrimp, I'd have to keep replacing them if the animal got hungry

So would I need an additional breeding tank of sorts for shrimp so I can raise healthy shrimp?

The best place for a tank would probably end up being in my bedroom which gets a lot of sunlight so if the eater's cloudy a bit, it would probably block out more sunlight.

What plants would you recommend???

 

[wolfen]

I'm more concerned about the animal. Obviously, to use shrimp, I'd have to keep replacing them if the animal got hungry

So would I need an additional breeding tank of sorts for shrimp so I can raise healthy shrimp?

The best place for a tank would probably end up being in my bedroom which gets a lot of sunlight so if the eater's cloudy a bit, it would probably block out more sunlight.

What plants would you recommend???

it depends on the water chemistry and light for what type of plant to use, if any form of salinity is used whether it be by adding salt or by adding holtfreters etc.. then you will need a hardy salt tolerant cold water plant such as sagittaria which is a grass type, some duck weeds and some java plants, if the water is fresh then amazon sword, anubias, hornwort etc.. most pond plants do well in cold water aquariums.
depending on the shrimp depends on whether they will need a separate breeder tank as some require low temperatures and high brackish water to breed, scud shrimp are good as a clean up crew they are too small for adult axolotls to bother with and breed quite well in the same type of water conditions as axolotls have, all other larger shrimp will need a seperate tank if you are planning to breed them as they make good snacks and will get eaten before they get the chance to breed.with fish platys, guppies, mollies etc.. can cope in the same water conditions as axolotls but don't breed fast enough to be out eaten so would also require a separate tank if you are planning a constant supply. small aquarium snails are good for cleaning, they breed fast and don't cause issues if accidentally eaten although they are mostly spat out unless the axolotl is used to eating pellets then they can easily get eaten by mistake, ramshorn snails will also clean well but don't breed as fast as other snails. California black worms can also be used for clean up and stay mostly in the substrate.

 

[michael]

A filterless tank for an axolotl is not practical. Outside in a pond or tub under water hyacinth might work. When people do filterless setups for salamanders they do it for smaller salamanders.

 

[Autistic Catholic]

A filterless tank for an axolotl is not practical. Outside in a pond or tub under water hyacinth might work. When people do filterless setups for salamanders they do it for smaller salamanders.

Actually, there's a guy on this forum who maintains filterless tanks for his axolotls so insisting it's not "practical" is debunked by mere observation.

 

[michael]

Actually, there's a guy on this forum who maintains filterless tanks for his axolotls so insisting it's not "practical" is debunked by mere observation.

Great. Why did you ask if you have the answer?

 

[JM29]

Having axolotls in a filterless aquarium (it's my case) is just simple providing the conditions are optimum :
- temperature between 10 and 18°C most of the time. Neither in a living-room nor in a bedroom. Prefer a basement.
- live food most of the time. Pellets can help in summer but I suspect they are too rich in Phosphorus.
- a lot of live fast-growing plants which will uptake ammonia directly, so that the so-called nitrogen cycle will be marginal.
- sand is Ok. Usually, axolotls not used with sand will swallow a lot of sand and they have to learn to sort the sand and the food. Moreover, sand povides additional surface for useful bacteria.
- the size of a filterless aquarium is not particularly bigger than a filtered aquarium and necessitate less water changes.

Unfortunately, it can prove difficult to maintain a permanent cleaning crew (isopods, snails, shrimps) because axolotls will probably hunt them. But there are usually less algae in a filterless aquarium.

And ... I don't remember having cloudy water in my filterless aquariums. Conversely, when I begun with aquariums 30 years ago, I had a hard time with cloudy water in a filytered tank. I stopped with filtered when I had Bettas, and after that Caudates, and everything was all right.

 

[Autistic Catholic]

Having axolotls in a filterless aquarium (it's my case) is just simple providing the conditions are optimum :
- temperature between 10 and 18°C most of the time. Neither in a living-room nor in a bedroom. Prefer a basement.
- live food most of the time. Pellets can help in summer but I suspect they are too rich in Phosphorus.
- a lot of live fast-growing plants which will uptake ammonia directly, so that the so-called nitrogen cycle will be marginal.
- sand is Ok. Usually, axolotls not used with sand will swallow a lot of sand and they have to learn to sort the sand and the food. Moreover, sand povides additional surface for useful bacteria.
- the size of a filterless aquarium is not particularly bigger than a filtered aquarium and necessitate less water changes.

Unfortunately, it can prove difficult to maintain a permanent cleaning crew (isopods, snails, shrimps) because axolotls will probably hunt them. But there are usually less algae in a filterless aquarium.

And ... I don't remember having cloudy water in my filterless aquariums. Conversely, when I begun with aquariums 30 years ago, I had a hard time with cloudy water in a filytered tank. I stopped with filtered when I had Bettas, and after that Caudates, and everything was all right.

I'll send you a pic of the room in the house. It's technically a "basement" floor but it may not be sufficiently a "basement" due to the proximity to ground level.

 

[JM29]

Hi,
No matter if it's actually a room or a basement.
The important thing to check is the temperature in July and August.
Since I've no real basement, I keep my axolotls in a garage where we don't park any car.
The garage is north of the house and the extreme temperature I measured are 4°C - 22°C.

I apply the rule of 10 gals for 1 adult axolotl in these conditions (no filter, light, fast-growing aquatic plants).
I make a massive water change in February when I want my axies to breed.