How long can a tank stay cloudy?

J

jenny

Guest
For weeks now my tank has been cloudy, but's not like milky, more like it's full of very very very small suspended matter,I can see the stuff moving with the flow of the water. I have done many water changes and though it seems less cloudy? after the water change, it's soon back to the way it was before the water change. I have 4 axies though up until a few days ago I had only three, the original 3 are always floating. But it's not like the are forced to more like they choose to. And they like to hang around the out flow of the filter where the water flow is fastest and tend to gulp air more than i would think normal It makes me think that the floating stuff is like reducing the oxygen levels... Because I do have a air stone. The new guy isn't floating as much. but he's rather timid as I save him from a too small over crowded tank, he's lost most of his tail, so he was the one who got picked on.
I tried adding a secondary filter, ( one of those corner air driven types) just incase the stuff was excess matter in the tank, but it makes no difference. I was thinking of trying a product call Magic Clear, it binds suspended matter together which in turn helps the filter work more efficiently. It worked a treat in my tropical tank, but not sure if I can use it with axies. Can any one help?
Just a comment on the over crowded axie tank, the shop had them in a small tank to make keeping them cool easier, they were trying to do the right thing, but didn't realise that by trying to reduce one stress causing problem they were creating others... so I forgive them a little because they were trying... funny they thanked me for saving the poor guy.
 
As they should be,
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 10
all things are a they should be I believe, water flow not to fast, sand subtrate, temp at 18 degrees lots of plants etc etc.
The axies seem happy and are eating fine except for gulping for air more than seems right, that would explain the floating i guess.Even the new guy seems settled and not stressed as i would expect due to what he's been recently through. The only thing that seems not right in the tank is this suspended matter??
I tried turning off the airstone, but the matter didn't go away.
Am I worrying too much and do you think the cloudiness will go away... It's just that's it been like this for a long time.... at least 5 to 6 weeks if not longer. But the constant floating has only just started. though they did do it occasionally before, but from what I read.. normal.
 
What are you using to test the water? How often are you testing it?? When was the last time you tested the water?

How often and how much of the water are you changing?

I strongly suspect that you have a bacterial bloom that is reducing the dissolved oxygen content of the water (as evidenced by the behavior of your axolotls) but a bacterial bloom should not be able to occur with the water parameters you listed.
 
I have been testing virtually everyday since the what you call bloom began, I though that a bacterial bloom is what is causing it. hence me testing nearly everyday... I use Master test kit and it works fine with all my other tanks I have a tank full of Baby Molly's and when I test their water it shows different levels due to the fact so many of them make it hard to keep the water parameter stable. But I change their water a 1/3 to 1/2 their water everyday depending on the water parameter. but anyway I know my test kit is working. If a tank should have a bloom is the baby Molly Tank.
I change 40 to 60 litres a day out of a 200 litre tank with the anxies. A couple of times I changed 80 litres... We have water restrictions here and I really shouldn't be using so much water.... so is there anything else I can do to maybe reduce the bloom.
 
If you are getting a bacterial bloom then there is some dissolved organic food item that is allowing the bloom that is also causing a imbalance in the bacterial population of the tank. This is most frequently due to overfeeding or by feeding frequently a frozen food item (like blood worms) or a soft pelleted food that results in lots of particulates being lost to the water column in the tank.

In some cases, this can be due to some kind of other dissolved organics in the water (for example, overuse of water conditioners containing aloe vera) or due to some problem with the incoming water supply (like using rain water).
If it isn't due to overfeeding, then the best thing is to move the axolotls to a different tank, stop the water changes and let the bloom run its course. This should take less than two weeks. This should allow the bacterial population to rebalance and deal with all of the excess nutrients.

Ed
 
Weird. Your test readings are good. It seems like if you can see bits of suspended matter, then the filter should be able to filter it out. Do you get any of the cloudy material out in the filter media? What kind of filter is it?

I've seen new tanks get cloudy for reasons besides bacterial blooms. Some water sources produce cloudy water that forms fluffy deposits in the tank when it's first set up (I believe it's some kind of inorganic material that settles out of the water), but that goes away within a month. I'm wondering if maybe doing less water changes might help; however, if you really do have a bacterial bloom, then the water changes are necessary.

Other ideas... what do you feed the axies? And is it possible that the cloudiness is from the sand?
 
I agree that all the stuff you mention has the potential to create a bloom, but none of the possibilities apply. They don't get frozen blood worms, uneaten pellets or other food is not left in the tank, I have read all the advice and follow it to the letter, I don't use a conditioner containing Aloe Vera, and use the exact amount recommended of the one I do use, and I don't use rain water. So all the obvious we can rule out. I have been down the road of moving them out of the tank... nothing changed.
Oh well I will just have to keep trying to figure it out. Thanks for the help anyways...
My next option will be to take them out and use the Magic Clear, and see if that settles things down.
 
What makes me lean away from the inorganic settling issue is the fact that the axolotls are acting like the water is low in oxygen.

When I was referring to the water supply, I didn't mean just rain water but this could also occur with well water or some tap water supplies.
If your water conditioner contains anything other than sodium thiosulphate then that could also be the problem as you are doing water changes on a daily basis.
When you went with the axolotls out of the tank, did you continue to do water changes on the tank or did you leave it totally alone for at least two weeks?

Ed
 
Didn't do water change while they were out of the tank...

Anyways I have removed the Axies and added the Magic Clear, within an hour it began to clear, the glass and plants had deposits of something on it, gel like deposits and the filter fluff in the additional air driven filter I added is getting dirty, which wasn't happening before, my main filter is a Canister filter, Which normally does a good job. One might think the deposits were from the Magic Clear but my tropical tank didn't get these types of deposits when I used the Magic Clear. Used mainly to help remove the tannins from a piece of bogwood, because my tank went VERY Brown... smiles.
The sand is not the problem, it's the same sand that was in their smaller tank and I never had a problem then, it's not the water supply as I use the same water for all my tanks and the axie tank is the only one with the cloudy problem. I have 4 of various sizes.
The problem has only occured in the Axie Tank, and the only real difference there is the temp, as far as what I use, ie water conditioner, filter,and water.The plants have come from the same supplier, so it's not something that's come with plants or ornaments etc.

Anyways, the chemicals?? from the Magic Clear should be gone after 24 hours, though I will keep the axies out of the tank for at least 48 hours and do a water change or two to be sure. Plus both filters have carbon etc that should decrease the chemicals? Problem is the packaging doesn't have any ingredients on it, so I don't know whats in it.It's only warning is not to overdose. The way this stuff has cleared the matter??? I should have used it weeks ago. But stuff that's ok for fish I know, can often be dangerous for Axies, so didn't want to use it. But I have used a similar product ages ago in their old tank. When I'd had all my plants die off due to lack of knowledge about plant care... and they made a horrible mess in the water.. when I removed them. smiles..
 
All because you are not having problems with your other tanks does not mean that the water supply etc is not the problem. Each tank is its own little ecosystem with its own populations of bacteria, algae, protozoa etc and a different bioload on the system. So all because your other tanks are fine doesn't mean that the water supply, the food etc are not the cause of the problems in this tank.

The magic clear is a item known as a flocculant. It takes the suspended matter and clumps it together but it doesn't deal with the root cause of the matter which unlike your tannin issue is not being resolved. When these items are typically used with bacterial and algae blooms, the bloom usually reoccurs after several weeks to a month or so.

Ed

(Message edited by Ed on September 26, 2006)
 
Thank you very much for your help,I can only hope that if it was a bloom caused by something in the tank, and the Magic Clear has helped to removed that.The fact that the fluff in the little air driven filter has turned brown, before adding the Magic Clear it stayed virtually white, and seemed not to be doing anything in the way of filtering, has me hoping the problem shouldn't return. But I guess if it does I will have to try something else.

I am an avid reader of this forum, I rarely post anything, as most of my questions are answered by just reading through everything, and in my early days as an axie owner, it taught me what I should and shouldn't do, but this had me stupped because following advice given to others who seemed to have similar problems didn't work. I have had cloudiness occur in the past especially when I changed the water, but it would go away after a few hours, therefore initially when this started i didn't worry too much, but after 5 or 6 weeks it became frustrating, because it would go away. So my last resort has been the Magic Clear, and all I can do is cross my fingers..

Thanks Again for your help.
 
Well it's definitely not Bacterial Bloom. This morning I turned off all filtration, to allow what hadn't been picked up by the filters to settle so I could vacuum it up. Ok well the stuff is settling alright, but at the top of the water. and in layers through th water column, now I don't know what to do, what ever it it I would say it's not harmful, but it is causing suffocation( for want of a better word) if you will of the axies. I am using asorbent paper to remove what is settling on the top of the water, as it settles,it's like a scum of some sort and the water movement from the filters have only served to move it about and break it up. I just don't know where it would have come from in the first place. As nothing has gone into the tank without being washed or rinsed first.Oh well I will just have to do what I have to do to remove it, and if that means pulling the tank apart and starting again then so be it... But I really hope I don't have to do that.I think because n it's so fine that the filtration just can't catch it all, I have a foam type filter as a secondary filter in my tropical tank, My hope is that the foam will trap what I can't get with asorbent paper and doing a couple of 50% water changes over the next couple of days, leaving filtration off while I do this.

Oh dear, I have really had a good run so far with my axies, a few small hiccups in the beginning, but nothing major,but now it's my turn to have problems.... smiles...
 
do they have any hiding places?
how deep is the sand?
food and waste can build up in hiding places and the sand can become stagnant.
fish tend to go around the tank nibbling at waste so when chemicals are used you tend to get differant effects then with axies.
with sand it tend to go off if not stired regular and also smells quite a bit also draining the top water won't effect either of these and the problem will re-acure.
try stirring the sand and then syphing some water off from near the sand layer and see if it smells like rotten eggs also use a pipe and syphon the water near any hiding places and see if that water smells as well.
you will also find that the filter cotten when removed with also have a rotten smell to it. and this will need cleaning out with fresh water.
before you do a water change stir the sand up then syphon then add fresh water.
if you can put either small stones or activated carbon in the canaster filter with the sponge filter so the water goes through the stones/carbon then through the sponge as this will help.
 
snip "Ok well the stuff is settling alright, but at the top of the water. and in layers "endsnip

This sounds like an excess of protien dissolved in the water column which can also be due to a bacterial bloom, overfeeding etc....

Ed
 
Well what ever caused it it's gone, time will tell if it comes back. The water is crystal clear. I appreciate all the advice, but I do and have been following guidelines outlined all over the place on this forum. And tried all the suggestions relating to cloudiness, I could find before posting my problem.
The water doesn't smell, doesn't taste funny,I have carbon in my canister filter, and the filter fluff in the air driven filter doesn't smell, but thank you anyways.
Using the foam filter from the tropical tank has cleaned the tank perfectly.
My water is clean again, and my axies are happily lazing about on the bottom.
 
I'm glad to hear the problem is resolved. It's been a mystery. Was the foam filter you used pre-cycled (like it had been in the tropical tank for a while)?
 
Yes It was my secondary filter in the tropical tank, it's great for getting suspended particles out of the tank, but the flow is too fast for axies so I can't use it when they are in the tank. This is my concern, that the canister filter just isn't doing it's job properly, it's the size recommended for the size tank though, who knows.
I have snails and they appear to be dieing off???? might be what has caused my problem, because their numbers did increase but now there seems to be a lot less,and are definitely not increasing, I was so focused on the cloudiness I wasn't really noticing snails... smiles...
This is all a case of everything settling down I guess,though the tank has been set up for a couple of months now and though i have followed guidelines, I dare say snails, and some plant die off ( not that there has been much, that I have noticed anyway)has created a combination to be just enough to cause the problem. So all should be good once the snail population regulates?? or dissappear and the plants become properly established. least I hope so, because this is the only answer I can come up with.
 
Im having the same sort of problem with my tank, im doing about a 1/4 water change every second day. these are the water parameters

ammonia 0.25
nitrite 0.5
nitrate 0.0

the water is still cloudy.. what on earth is going on? im using ammolock and purer water
 
Ben how long have you been cycling your tank? As you don't have nitrate established I assume it's a new tank setup. Usually u do get a cloudy tank when it first starts cycling its the bacteria bloom.

Also, why are you using ammolock? While cycling you shudn't use any other chemicals as it cud effect it.

(Message edited by kapo on October 22, 2006)
 
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