ID of Axolotl and other Ambystomid larvae

[Bugboy]

I could do with help. I'm in Mexico city right now attempting to film Axolotl in the wild. I've just been to a market and been illegally offered several species under the name Axolotl - one looked like the real deal. I've bred them many times in captivity at home and I've also bred the most likely other species A.tigrimun. So I like to think I can identify them pretty well - however I cannot find any useful key to these Ambystomid larvae. Is there any?? It just I have people doubting what I saw and without purchasing the animal concerned I cannot be 100% sure.

Can anyone help??

 

[michael]

That's a tough one. In Mexico they tend to call any large Ambystomid an axolotl. Can't you go to the research station to take pictures?

 

[Bugboy]

Yeah, I'm just impatient and want to get ahead of the game - I'm not really taking any notice of the names as I've been offered other under the same name (as I mentioned) I've also been informed by the locals that the males are the ones with external gills and females are the metamorphosed Tigers!! Obviously plenty of room for confusion.

Elsewhere in Mexico the other local name of Ajolote is used for Worm Lizards and several other species of regular lizard body forms too.

I'm just after some definitive characteristics thats all - I'm still pretty convinced that one of the animals I saw was A. mexicanum as I've had plenty of experience breeding this species back home in the UK.

 

[Bellabelloo]

My only suggestion is maybe look at some of the photos in the gallery of the larvae..having looked myself they all look much a like at this stage . Are you able to photo them and post here, some of the more expert people may be able to assist.

 

[Bugboy]

Unfortunately not! Its a very dodgy market - run by a local 'mafia' and the vendors know what they do is illegal here.

 

[blueberlin]

What differences do you see between them, then?

-Eva

 

[Bellabelloo]

What sort of size would these larvae be? and would they not be what we know as wild type?. The pictures that I have seen of larger larvae ( with legs) of the various species seem to have slightly different shaped heads. I suppose you wouldn't want to look too suspicious examining too closely :blob:

 

[Tim S]

There are photos by Edwin D. Pentecost of larval and metamorphosed Ambystoma mexicanum collected by Tomas H. Fritts published in BioScience Vol. 19 No. 7 on page 595. The journal article is titled "The Mexican Axolotl: Some Misconceptions and Problems" by Hobart M. Smith.

Maybe someone could email you these images.

 

[optimist]

I'd be really interested to see photos of genuine wild axolotls. Hope you find them. If you do, what are you planning to do -- where would the film be viewable?

 

[John]

I've sent Nick the article that Tim S. mentioned. There is also a good photographic comparison in "Developmental Biology of the Axolotl" but sadly my copy is in Ireland and I am not. Perhaps someone else can scan the relevant pages and we can email them to Nick. As I mentioned in the email I sent Nick, many authorities use the long, stiletto-like toes to distinguish A. mexicanum from A. velasci (and, I assume, other neotenes in the region).

 

[michael]

I started rereading Developmental Biology of the Axolotl. On Page 19 they state branchiate animals obtained at the market in Xochimilco in 1970 and 1971 were Ambystoma mexicanum and Ambystoma tigrinum. They use the long toes as a distinguishing characteristics of A. mexicanum. They also hypothesize that many imports of A mexicanum have been mixed with A. tigrinum from the beginning. They go on to suggest that most of the tigrinum line has been bred out of captive bred A. mexicanum because of metamorphosis.

 

[Bugboy]

Hi and Thanks for all your help on this complex matter (I had no idea it was so complex) It turns out that I probably did see a true Axolotl larvae but the fact is there is no way of knowing as there is a real mix of hybrids of various Ambystomids available. I had also been informed by locals that true 'wild' Axolotls fetch much higher prices on the black market. Without going back, buying the animals and having it genetically tested I will never know for sure.

However on a plus note - I think we made a great film on the true situation and we did catch a few 'wild' animals although the conditions of much of Xochimilco are horrific and they look like they are very close to being extinction the wild. Although the fact that a group of Chinampa farmers, fishermen, scientists, Zoo staff and Graffiti artists are going to make sure it doesn't vanish without a fight. They are buying up some land and have plans to restore wild Axolotls to these small reserves - they are small but they can be made bigger - all they need is money, and it seems that just a few grand here and there would make all the difference. Saving Axolotls is much cheaper than saving Giant Pandas or Tigers - but it needs a whole lot more persuasion, mastery of local politics and the changing of ways to do so.

I have some cool photos of wild animals, the habitat and a very neat 'wild' metamorphosed specimen from Mexico City Zoo. I'll probably post them on my own website once I've had a chance to do a select.

All the best

Nick

 

[Bellabelloo]

Thank you for your update, it sounds very interesting and looking forward to seeing the film

 

[blueberlin]

Hi Nick,

Maybe you could answer a burning question for me since you were at The Lake - did you see any glaciers?

Second question: does this group of Chinampa farmers, fishermen, scientists, Zoo staff and Graffiti artists have a name?

-Eva

 

[Tim S]

Para los Gringos: "Como se dice, "buyer beware"!?

Nick, the "wild" Axolotl may cost more because they are lab raised.