Irianian Newts: Neurergus kaiserii

[michael]

Some zoos in the U.S. do have Neurergus kaiseri. Their was a small import of c.b. kaiseri last year and their should be one this year. N. kaiseri is a hot topic animal. The c.b. do better than the w.c. but their were some losses in the c.b.

 

[dawn]

Are you trying your hand at them?

 

[dawn]

I didn't mean to put you on the spot. I meant, if you wanted to try it, you have a lot of success. I'd "back" you financially, that's what I meant, I'd take a risk on you, or someone with a success record like yours. As a group, we could, like Jonathan suggested, pool our resources, and maybe not flood the market, but at least keep the species going well. I think this is such a great idea and a really worthwhile cause. I know I have no breeding background and it's way beyond me, but I'd put my money where my mouth is.

(Message edited by otterwoman on April 04, 2007)

 

[dawn]

I know it hasn't been even a day yet, but I keep thinking about this. I'm serious. Maybe this is a crazy idea, but if there's anyone that has had success breeding other species and really thinks they are responsible and up to the commitment, I would sponsor a pair. If a couple other people would sponsor another pair and maybe an extra female, that would increase the chances of success. Of course, a proposition like this involves a lot of trust and maybe it's too idealistic but what does anyone else think?
We'd need to decide this soon while they are still available.
I wonder whether I'm going to regret posting this...

 

[charles]

I was going to get some and try to breed them but I don't have the space at moment, and there is not much info. for the care. I have been talking to a guy that would sale me some gravid females for $75 each. I would like to help and try to breed them when I get the space for more tanks.

 

[dawn]

I was really impressed by this post:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/76992.html
and there is other info to be gleaned by searching this site, and perhaps other sites.
I'm waiting for a moderator to jump in and say something. I mean, something helpful; I'm not being sarcastic.

 

[michael]

Hi Dawn,
Thanks for the generous offer. But no thanks. I have c.b. N. kaiseri I imported as juveniles last year. I have some adults I purchased as c.b. this year but have my suspicion about. I have about 50 eggs in the water and less than a dozen larvae. I might also be importing more definate c.b. this year. I'd like to see these animals established as c.b. in the U.S.
Many newts and salamanders are thought to be difficult to care for before the husbandry is worked out and communicated. Lets hope this is the case with N. kaiseri. All of my animals were "legally" imported with USFW import papers. I have no kaiseri for sale but expect I will have c.b. juveniles for sale in the fall.

 

[dawn]

Ironically, I'm not even really interested in having them myself, although they're stunningly beautiful; it's the principle of the thing to me.
If I myself were going to go all out and try to cb a species, it would be tarichas. That's my goal. I think they are irresistible.

 

[deborah]

It really saddened me to see how many people at Kingsnake seemed to have jumped on the Neurergus kaiserii "bandwagon" - every time I check their classifieds there seem to be more people.

I do hope folks like Michael Shrom will continue to raise these beautiful ones in captivity. In the future, I would love to purchase some that were captive bred. I just have issues with buying the ones that have suspicious origins...

 

[sergé]

It woudd be nice to see if people who have bought them last year or the year before how the animals are doing now. I guess 90% of the animals have died.

 

[jennifer]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Roy van Grunsven on Monday 02 April 2007 - 15:05 (#POST126779):</font>

I don't think posting this info in http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Neurergus/N_kaiseri.shtml will solve the problem but it only costs a few minutes and it might help a little bit by making people aware. And being aware is always the first step to a solution.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Hi Roy, we can do that. I would be happy to add some information on that page about the status of these animals in the wild, based on whatever references are available. Anyone want to volunteer to assemble facts and/or write it?

Serge, I agree, I would bet that most have died one way or another. From what I have heard, N. kaiseri will not be an easy species to propagate in captivity long-term.

 

[roy]

There is info on the site of the IUCN. This is also used by most goverments and is known as very reliable.
You can find N. kaiseri here
http://www.iucnredlist.org/search/details.php/59450/summ
Under the names are links to other pages on this species.

 

[joseph]

Chances are most of these imports will just dissapear. For example, I think we only have one bloodline of karelinii in the states and I'm sure quite a number were exported from Ukraine...

 

[deborah]

I just emailed the two remaining sellers of these endangered newts.

I asked both sellers if they were aware that the newts are endangered, and sent them a link to the IUCN (from Roy's post)

I think it's against forum rules to paste the actual emails here, but the responses were interesting.

One of the sellers was extremely defensive and claimed he has been taking them out of the Iran to sell to "zoos" and "breeders" - he was angry that I would "rush to judgement" and demanded whether I knew anyone else who has done "more" for these newts than he has. So if he is so concerned why is he wantonly offering them on Kingsnake to whatever yay-hoo wants to buy them for $75???

The other seller claimed that the newts are captive bred, and that even though they are endangered in Iran "they are sold by the thousands here."

I don't like to stir things up, but this issue honestly sickens me. I just wanted them to be aware that at least "some" people know these are critically endangered animals...

 

[steven]

These newts are being sold in Japan also: http://www.w-monster.com/herps/Saramandra_Newts/Neurergus_kaiserii_20070401.htm
They are described as CB.

 

[alan]

"From what I have heard, N. kaiseri will not be an easy species to propagate in captivity long-term."

I'm not sure I agree with that statement.
http://frogroom-podcast.blogspot.com/2007/04/neurergus-kaiseri-larvae.html

As with many species, the CB animals seem to be much more robust than the WC imports. It's just like the situation with WC Mantellas, which acquired a reputation of being very delicate.

HOWEVER, I do believe that is important that is species is not kept aquatic year round. They "like" to spend 10 months of the year hiding under a rock, as in the wild. For this reason, they make very poor "pet newts".

DON'T BUY THE KINGSNAKE IMPORTS!

 

[william]

if only this species (and genus for that matter) looked like a desmognathus, there would be no problems with over collecting, and i'm sure there wouldn't be a whole section of this forum dedicated to them. It is fortunate that in the UK we have respectable and honest breeders like Alan who enjoy the hobby for enjoyment's sake, not for profit.

incidently, why should a species like this develop such fantastic colouration? is it aposematic or does it help to camoflauge in a stream like a tiger with its stripes?

(Message edited by will_j on April 20, 2007)

 

[joseph]

Will: I suspect the latter. Look at the zebra pleco. I still can't really see how it camouflages them even in a brisk current though.


Even if we here hold off, these animals will be purchased. Honestly, a breeding project with high end leopard geckos or many snakes would be more expensive than these at the prices they are at right now. So I'm going to bet random herp people will snap them up.

 

[jody]

if you can obtain import papers from the wholeseller, you have amphibian knowlege, the money to afford them...then whats better not buy them, let them die at the wholesellers, or buy them and provide the best housing you are able to do by resurching them.then you have the options of doing something about them being so rare. you could try your hand at breeding, switch or trade your animals to other breeders in the hopes of mixing the gene pool a bit, or donate them to a zoo or other person able to breed them and maybe get cb baby's in return. i know that not all the animals being offered for sale are illeagel.maybe i'm showing my ignorance, but there are not enuff of these beautiful rare animals left in the world for us to punish them for human mistakes. is it moraly right for us to not to try and save a rare animal just because someone is a fool and does not care about how endangered they are in the wild?i just think not buying them is dooming them, there gonna disappear because of humans ...why should able humans not try and save them. i'm sorry to be ranting but this post has kinda upset me a bit.

 

[john]

There are sufficient populations in captivity that people shouldn't be purchasing them from wholesalers. This only encourages the wholesalers to acquire more. If no one bought them no one would collect them for sale.