Is there a HARDCORE parasite killer

Morrison

Morrison

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that's pretty well okay for axies?

I guess you all know my previous WHAT THE HELL IS THIS AND WHAT TO DO AGAINST IT¿ I DON'T GET IT ANYMORE!-threads.

I've found things like skin flukes, costia, chilodonella, something else and weird that looks flagellate-a-like to me and suddenly also... vorticella. And that after months of treatment, waterchanges, other stuff and a lot of my free days. Will it ever end? Will I ever get those healthy axies again? (I've took everything out of the tanks (yep, water too) just to start over AGAIN.... I also saw that the costia OR chilodonella were just swimming in the free water while watching it under the microscope)

Sometimes I wish bleach was the best solution to kill it all but I can't do that to my axies ofcourse (don't worry)...
But is there something that kills them all (but not my axies.... I would like to keep them alive.... and not... puffed, cooked, grilled, purple, skinny or something)
 
Are you sure they are costia or chilodonella? Are you familiar with the non-parasitic free-swimming protozoa that could be in your aquarium?
 
I think the best bet regarding keeping your animals healthy is to give them the best possible living conditions and then expect that their own natural defenses will keep them healthy. As you've noted, there are lots of things swimming about in the water. Most of these critters are totally benign. The presence of organisms other than the axolotls is something to be expected in a healthy tank. I'm always amazed at how diverse the aquatic life is in my tank. Using chemicals in an attempt to kill every thing in the tank but the axies is not a wise course of action.
 
For free swimming microorganisms you can use a uv clarifier. Many of the microorganisms and "little creatures" in an axolotl tank are benign and need no treatment.
 
I don't know about anything anymore... There were still flukes on their skin after treating them.... and a lot... Like.... what am I doing it for? I follow the instructions, I do recent water changes and try to keep everything clean and use different nets (a net for each tank) and nothing seems to get better...

I shouldn't keep axies....
 
Don't say that, I can clearly tell you have tried everything and more a good owner should - this isn'tyour fault but unfortunately I don't know how to help... sorry :(
 
Oh Morrison cant believe you are still having problems and I wil also say dont beat yourself up you are a fantastic owner and are doing everything you can to get your axies back to health, wish you all the best I know are demoralising it gets when your axies get sick. Chin up xx
 
As has been said before, the best defense against any kind of infection is healthy animals. This requires a healthy system. To maintain a healthy system you have to allow it time to cycle, so my first recommendation is to stop making changes to your system (except, of course, the regular water changes as suggested here). Second, I would use Holtfretter's solution. Treatment for flukes is maintaining salt in your aquarium (.3% NaCl) but it's just easier to mix up a batch of Holtfretter's and use it consistently. I know that there is a great deal of conversation on this board about causing pain when using salt but, again, we are adding human perceptions to these animals and doing it incorrectly. Your tears are more saline than the Holtfretter's Solution - it's a normal situation. Professionals keep their animals in this all the time. Third, I would be certain that what I have diagnosed is actually what is happening - in other words, before you add any kind of treatment I would seek confirmation that the organisms in your tank are the ones you feel you have identified. Do you have photos? That might enlighten us all even if your diagnosis is correct. It might be helpful for all of us to see what you're dealing with so we can avoid it. Since you have to see these critters through a microscope did you know that you can actually take a photo through the eyepiece of the scope that comes out pretty decent? It's cool give it a try and upload the results.
 
Well... I've actually filmed trought the microscope. I hope it came out pretty clear but it's harder to see the complete 'beastie' than when you look through it with your eye :p
The thing I don't have a video of is the vorticella-thing (I lost it and wasn't able to find it again but it was there and moving) but I'm pretty sure it's vorticella (or there must be something else that looks a lot like it but I haven't found it yet)

I'll see if I can post them here if they're clear enough

I also don't know much about that Holtfreter's solutionthing, how to make it, where to find all those types of salt(?) or if there's a pre-made mixture somewhere.
 
Thanks. But I don't know where to find all those kinds of salt (for the Holtfreter's solution thing) here in the Netherlands... I've given them salt baths with aquarium salt and sometimes table salt but no improvement after all those times)
Anyway...

The videos:
Video 1: Fluke-a-likes:
YouTube - Skin flukes?

Video 2: Something weird I also found... I don't know what it actually is.... And if it's a terrible thingy or if it just does minor damage...
YouTube - What is this kind of parasite?

Video 3: Not the best quality but I saw a few of these (but some of them were smaller and some of them were bigger...
So I don't know if it are two different types or not...:
YouTube - Parasite something?

Video 4: This is something I've uploaded earlier:
YouTube - Axolotl skin with parasites?

And unfortunately I don't have the vorticella thing on video....

And the light axies still have these white patches on their tails (they never had them before) and they won't go away (although, the ones on the picture below look less in real life now... on my male axie):
 

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The salt article on CC has an appendix at the bottom with the "basic" salt solution: 2-3 teaspoons per liter. You do have table salt, right?
 
Jennewt said:
The salt article on CC has an appendix at the bottom with the "basic" salt solution: 2-3 teaspoons per liter. You do have table salt, right?
Click to expand...


Yes, I do. That's how I always did my salt baths. It looks like those baths never worked at all. So is it actually okay to continue with it or is it just a waste of time when it looks like they don't do a thing. (Because... if they DO work how fast will you notice something? I guess it won't take two months :()

Sorry for all these questions, I really sound desperate like hell (and stupid, lol)
 
The first looks like it could be some sort of fluke, or something on a stalk. Most flukes and leeches are not parasitic. The second looks like an unusually-shaped Daphnia-type creature. The third and fourth videos like a typical free-swimming protozoans, which are a normal thing to find in a healthy aquarium.

Where exactly did you get these before you put them under the microscope? In what part of the aquarium? The last video is titled "axolotl skin" - how did you get the skin under the 'scope? Is it from a skin swab?

I can't rule out that you have some sort of parasitic micro-organism, but I'm not convinced by any of your pictures show something harmful. A lot of these could be normal micro-organisms that we all have in our aquariums. We would need an expert on fish diseases.

I went back and read your previous thread
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...help-something-unique-i-dont-get-anymore.html
Among the treatments suggested by the Axolotl Colony, which did you try?
 
Ah, well what I was looking at under the microscope was a piece of the thick white patch (excessive mucus) one of my wildtype developed about a week ago (I guess the flukes did it) and also a loose piece of skin, like he was shedding a bit. There were a lot of them on it.
(The white patch on his back and top of his head looks less/gone for about 75%. This was only on one of my axies, the one on my avatar).

The treatment I did was the Furan-2 treatment. (We have something similar here in the Netherlands called Furanol-2). I had something similar to Clout but the amount of malachite green in it was so high that I didn't use it. (I read bad things about axies and Clout and some people also warned me... So that changed my mind) I also used something similar to Melafix for the lesions (forgot the name but it was a small package) and as far as I see they're all gone and I don't see signs of new ones so that's good news I guess).

About a month ago I thought my albino one could have had red leg... but looking back at it it doesn't seem like that was the problem. Just really irritated skin.

I've also used something against flukes with levamisole and praziquantel in it. (I still had a bit in the time I had fish but it was still good to use but the bottle was almost empty)
So I bought Gyrodactol for the most nasty types of flatworms but that stuff really smells like bleach and I don't know if that's actually good and I don't want my axies scratching their gills off or something.

Between all treatments I did salt baths, tea baths, added almond leaves to the tank.

It's pretty much of a relief to read that the things on video 3 and 4 are safe protozoans.

The 'thing' on the second video looks pretty weird... But luckily I found only one.

Good news is that the big wound on my albino's tail has healed for about 90%. The folded part of the tail also looks less but I don't see why that could be a problem anymore. It's not that red anymore and he keeps his tail down on the ground so it doesn't hurt.

Sometimes everything looks like it's going well and some other days I might discover something else like... bloody patches, white patches, weird parasites, strange behaviour (scratching etc)...
But I hope the worst part is over.

But I still wonder what those white patches are. Or maybe if the parasite causing it is gone (don't know which one if it really was one) does it take some time for the white patches to disappear? Some parts do look less, just like the "T" shaped part on the picture I've posted above of the white patches (the second arrow on the left aims at it).
It looks less 'thick' now but still there.

Sorry, long post. :eek:
 
Morrison said:
Thanks. But I don't know where to find all those kinds of salt (for the Holtfreter's solution thing) here in the Netherlands... I've given them salt baths with aquarium salt and sometimes table salt but no improvement after all those times)
Click to expand...
I used to have a link to some Dutch site where you could get almost any kind of simple chemical as a private party and a quick search through my mail has led me back to Ter (Dutch) but it seems that they don't really sell chemicals anymore. I used to have more but I can't find them anymore and generally the downside of those sites is that you have to order in quantities of several kilos which is way too much of course. If you're still in school you could try to ask the chemistry or possibly the biology section what they could do for you, my teachers used to be quite fond of students who did their own (guided) experiments and science-y side projects but unfortunately not all teachers are like that though :(

Some more digging around led me to a site called 'De Hekserij' (translated: 'The Witchcraft', yes very imaginative indeed..) which sells all kinds of ingredients in small doses. I think they might help you out :) Alternatively you could go to a apothecary where they also sell all kinds of simple chemicals without asking too many questions ;)
If you're not as chemistry literate as axolotl.org wants you to be here is the make-up of Holtfreter's solution in simpler language (I wont do the other solutions as I have forgotten most of the chemistry stuff I learned and I don't own a Binas (Dutch tome of biology, physics and chemistry) anymore):
Chemical formula - English chemical name, Dutch chemical name - English every day name (Dutch translation)
NaCL - sodium chloride, natrium chloride - table salt (tafelzout)
KCL - potassium chloride, kalium chloride
CaCl2 - calcium chloride, calcium cloride - (Strooi zout)
NaHCO3 - sodium bicarbonate, natrium waterstofcarbonaat - baking soda (bakpoeder, zuiveringszout, maagzout)

Dutch names are included here so it becomes easier for Morisson to locate the chemicals :)
 
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At first glance I think you might be overreacting to normal aquarium microorganisms. Does your axolotl look sick? It's normal to have all kinds of microorganisms living in a tank. Axolotls have lots of weird looking blotches and marks that are normal marking.
 
michael said:
At first glance I think you might be overreacting to normal aquarium microorganisms. Does your axolotl look sick? It's normal to have all kinds of microorganisms living in a tank. Axolotls have lots of weird looking blotches and marks that are normal marking.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. Can you post some pics of your axolotls as they look at the moment, full body - wise etc.

Also, I've read on here that its advisable to maintain a certain salty solution in your tank. Going back to that "white lumps" thread there is advice on a good level to have in your tank.
 
Morrison said:
Thanks. But I don't know where to find all those kinds of salt (for the Holtfreter's solution thing) here in the Netherlands..
Click to expand...

Try 500g Calcium chloride! high grade, flake reef aquarium - eBay, Chemicals, Lab Supplies, Medical Lab Equipment, Business, Office Industrial. (Eindtijd 26-dec-10 13:28:00 CET) for calcium chloride

and

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for potassium chloride.

The table salt and baking soda components must surely be easy to get in a supermarket?
 
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