Itchy Axolotls, possible parasites

[Umber]

So I've been doing some reading and whilst I havent gotten a vet involved I am under the assumtion that my axolotls have gill parasites. They are scratching frequently at their gills, before I did a complete water change I found small worms that floated in the water column that moved in a straight line. There were other, thread-like worms, which Im pretty sure those were harmless though I have seen them on my wildtype axy before. I am having the same problem in both my tanks, probably due to swapping axie tankmates

I have TWO 23 gallon tanks and I was contemplating doing medication with Flagyl(metrondiazole) to kill the gill flukes. I am wondering if I can treat the entire tank for 24hrs with a specific dosage and then do a whole water change and carbon to remove the medication afterwards. The entire tank would have to be treated, imo, as I have live plants and wood decor and have no good way to sterilized those items without treating as well.

I can not fridge all 4 lotls as I live with roommates and share a fridge. One or two would be fine but not all 4. Anyway I am wondering if anyone could help me figure out dosing for Flagyl, how many mg of it for the entire tank. Im gonna guess its more likely 21 gallons with water dispaced due to decor and substrate.

 

[HayleyK]

Before doing all that, what are you water parameters and temp? I recommend a vets opinion before dosing your tank. Do you know what parasite your targeting? Will that medication even help? Can you see any parasites?

Bare in mind axolotls can absorb chemicals much more than fish so fish medication is really strong and may be fatal. You know it could be a early sign of a fungus and there will always be spores in the tank. If it's parasites isn't it best to get a vets opinion?

 

[auntiejude]

TBH I would not assume parasites as a first thought - unless your axies are in an outside pond. The little white worms are most likely nematodes or planaria and are completely harmless.

Water quality, temperature or fungus is far more likely. Check your water parameters carefully & examine your axies' gills closely.

Before you start adding chemicals either get a firm diagnosis, or exclude everything else. If in doubt a first response should be something like indian almond leaves or tea baths, or if fungus is evident try salt baths.

 

[Umber]

I was getting a lot of my information for possible parasites from this forum topic:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...p/70115-flubendazole-flagyl-metronidazol.html

My water:
Temps 70F
pH-7.2
Ammonia- 0ppm
Nitrite- 0ppm
Nitrate- 20ppm
GH- 75ppm
KH- 100ppm

No physical signs of fungus, no fuzziness, milkiness or discoloration, only thing I keep seeing is my Axololts kicking at their gills with their back legs in a fashion that has reduced their gill filament size. Normal eating habits, they are a little more active due to their apparent discomfort. No changes in food. The only new thing was an new axolotl a few weeks prior to noticing the changes in behavior. I have done a salt bath once so far around the same time I did a full water change to rid the tank of the majority of the nematodes, planaria, or whatever they may be. These tanks have been running for 2 years without any problems until recently and honestly the white worms were never noticeable before in the water column. I feel like this is not one of those cases where these worms are harmless since they were never visible prior to this problem arising.

I cant seem to find a previous article I was reading on describing stages of gill flukes but what I could remember is that the attached flukes themselves are near impossible to see with the naked eye and that one of the stages can be seen in the water column as white small worms that move in a straight line rather than erratic as most non parasitic worms are seen doing.

I am aware that medications are absorbed much easier in amphibians hence why I am trying to do this solution "*or 50 mg / L x 24 h bath" as described in the other forum post in order to treat for what seems to me the description for gill flukes. I just want to make sure I get the amounts right and dont overdose my lotls.

If I am thinking correctly than 21 gallons = 79.49L, so 79.49L x 50mg = 3974.5mg
I may still get a vet involved, I am honestly trying to avoid the high vet costs that these types of exotics present.

 

[Umber]

Also I have Indian almond leaves in my tank atm due to their apparent stress and again I've done at least one salt bath so far.

 

[auntiejude]

Salt, vinegar and magnesium sulfate are recommended treatments for parasites in axolotls (see here) but you still really need a firm diagnosis before treating with drugs. Gill flukes are not common, and I still think that there is another explanation.

 

[spot26]

How long have your axies been scratching for?
I have a gold albino that had been going crazy around the tank and scratching at her gills with her back foot. I just kept an eye on her and kept the water pretty clean. It stopped for a while then started again. After a week her tank mate started rubbing his gills on the drift wood. Then i found there was a little bit if fungus on her gill. That was yesterday but today the male has some too.
So maybe it is an early sign of fungus...

 

[Umber]

Its been going on for about 2 weeks now and was really bad before I did a complete water change. They were calm for a couple days and now its starting up again. They are going up to the surface more for air as well, probably due to their shortened gill filaments.

I suppose even if I dont see any sign of it I should try treating for fungal and if there is no change occurring then at that point Id still have to say parasites.


If it happens to be gill flukes, from all the reading I have done on it, it seems to be difficult to treat, as in salt baths typically dont work, and usually medication is required.

 

[Elise]

Have you ruled out temperature as a possible cause? The increased activity, appetite, floating, and gill scratching are also symptoms shared with heat stress. A temperature of 70 is slightly outside their preferred range.

 

[Umber]

They've been at 68-70 for most of the year, its not something new to them. They've been up to 74 before during previous summers without being this active.

 

[Elise]

Can you post some pictures of their gills and condition?

It seems risky to treat for parasites that are not entirely apparent. Especially when the symptoms are quite generic and overall health and appetite are good, both of which are usually affected. If you really do feel it's a parasite, this would be a great use of a vet's expertise. They would be able to identify and setup an appropriate treatment plan. The risk is mainly how easy it is to incorrectly dose on your own, and the post you provide doesn't list any sources for the dosages. If there is a typo and the source isn't verified, it could spell disaster.

 

[Umber]

Here are some pics of the gills.

 

[spot26]

Treatment for gill flukes is pretty harsh. I used to have a pair of electric blue jack dempseys that had gill flukes. Its hard to get rid of and salt doesn't do it. I used gill fluke tablets but there's no way I'd use this on axies.
You'd have to get a definite diagnosis before treating and the whole tank would be affected including your plants and drift wood. Its not an easy fix. If it is gill flukes, it takes weeks/months to rid them completely.

 

[Sweetie]

The problem with giving them salt baths is that if it is not a fungus - and as there is no fungus visible, in my opinion you shouldn't be giving them salt baths (and they won't treat gill flukes anyway) - then the salt baths could actually be irritating their gills, causing further damage and gill shrinking. So I agree with Auntie Jude - don't treat for something that has not been properly diagnosed because you could easily do more harm than good.
Also, how long did you quarantine the new axie before introducing it to the tank?