Juvenile not moving when touched + when NOT to fridge?

[Axilottaquestions]

Hi everyone,

I’m a new owner. I’ve tried to read all of the threads before posting to avoid repetition but I’m still in search of help for the nuances.

1. 4-5 inches long so I think a juvenile. Not sure sex.
2. Two days ago noticed it not seeming well, didn’t move when we touched it- ie it would push around then eventually move.
- sometimes a back leg seemed angled weird. While not floating it did seem a little possibly tilted in the back end later in the day.
- all of this led me to believe it was constipated /impacted. (No substrate, but we’ve possibly over fed brine shrimp 2x a day).
- we tubbed her and did see what I now think is poop twice (which also means I don’t think he has pooped much or at all since we got about a month ago).
…….after the research we fridged him last night. One more poop early but none overnight.

This morning I wasn’t sure if I had been hasty, since she had actually finally pooped, so we stopped fridging and kept in tub in cool room.
-she did eat a couple pellets

Now tonight again having the pushing /not moving. Her gills seem to be limp/flattened to her head. Maybe bent? Maybe some whiteness showing on tips?

I know all of these changes are stressful and bad- but have fridged again since that seems to be consensus everywhere.

(other info, we did have a lot of challenges with ammonia reaching 2) we had gone through a whole tubbing protocol a week or two ago and she was doing great. Daily water changes while we got that cycled back with Surestart 700. We got it down to zero and seemed good hovering around .25 when this started happening ammonia had gotten back to .5 so we were going to run again to get it back down when we found this behavior happening.

Questions that have come up that I don’t see answers to:
1. Can you be TOO quick to fridge? Or is this always a good option? (When WOULDN’T you want to fridge?)
2. How long is too short to fridge? I know you can up to two weeks, but what is the shortest you would want to?
3. If we don’t have any stones or anything large he could have eaten (other than too large a piece of worm?) when would we think impacting would be over and we could stop fridging?

4. now that the gills are looking badly, do we think we over stressed her with all the movements and changes- which allowed a fungus to set in (if that’s what is going on?) … or would you assume this may have been the primary issue and neve impacting?

5. If fungus- do a tea or salt bath… but again, how long do you keep fridging during that treatment?

6. We usually add the aquarium salt to her tank, but not to the tubs when we are running- nor do we have in the fridge water. Should we add a little amount? Or would that be too concentrated in a small container?

7. Has anyone had this issue of being able to push them around? Any causes besides what I mentioned?

Thanks! I so appreciate the expertise here! I’m going to include pics to see if I’m missing anything? Can’t tell if her gills are looking whiter/fuzzier or if she just looks sick

Ps when attached these photos it almost looks like there are two bumps on the right side (as you look down)

 

[wolfen]

what are your water parameters ie.. temperature, ph, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, kh, gh?
axolotls spend a lot of time resting/sleeping especially during the day, they will also try to play possum after be surprised and then shooting around the tank.
fridging can lower the axolotls body temperature too much causing organ failure and is not advised unless there are no other options.
a salt bath can be over kill due to the high levels, if using salt for a fungal infection add 3.5g/l non iodised salt to the water, this will remove most forms of fungus that attack the gills, tea baths will also work due to the acidity.
stress can lower an axolotls resistance to fungal infections.
the bumps on the side are it's guts, this is nothing to worry about and is mostly due to how small it is, will become less noticeable with age.
axolotls do not poop like clockwork and depending on amount of food given can take days to do so, the main concern with constipation is air locks (quite common with hard pellet food) and impaction due to swallowing of sand, gravel etc..
if there is ammonia in the water then there is also waste being produced, as to ammonia was the tank properly cycled.

 

[Axilottaquestions]

I will check again tomorrow but from memory
Ammonia was .5
Nitrite or nitrate (bad one) was 0
Temp 64 to 61
Ph was 7.4 (hard to tell color difference, COULD have been 8.0 but our best guess was that it
matched 7.4 ).
Dont know what kh /gl are.

This guy has not been much of a mover since we got him/her. Never zoomed around.

But definitely would have moved quickly away if touched or disturbed and then suddenly was just non responsive (literally just getting pushed around ). Then if I persisted would finally swim away.

Also the hind legs were definitely wonky and not moving right. Distinctly different behavior.

What is weird is that he/she is now moving more than ever being fridged? Everything I have read says they should go fairly immobile but this is more movement than ever before… ever encountered it?

While she is moving, it still seems her hind legs aren’t working quite properly. Gills don’t look great and seem limp as primary change but I couldn’t say for sure if they look like fungus that has been described. Look a little “hazier” than I remember but not sure if just dull.

I have done one 15 min salt bath. Not sure how aggressive to go with that as I’m not sure there is a fungal/bacterial component or not…. And I’m just not sure how long I should keep fridged.

I do really think something is not right. Taking her out last time she seems to get worse again by end of day and not going back to normal behavior. That is in tub with 100% water change and no water quality issues…. However she’s moving so much that also makes me wonder if we should keep her in there?!!

Ps. For food we were primarily feeding brine shrimp. I think if food related most likely feeding too much? We were doing a couple dropper fills twice a day…) she hasn’t eaten many pellets traditionally, those has a bit since we haven’t given the brine shrimp now. (I know brine not the best for complete nutrition but thought she was young enough it was ok for awhile since she preferred them as she got adjusted to our house?)

 

[Axilottaquestions]

what are your water parameters ie.. temperature, ph, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, kh, gh?
axolotls spend a lot of time resting/sleeping especially during the day, they will also try to play possum after be surprised and then shooting around the tank.
fridging can lower the axolotls body temperature too much causing organ failure and is not advised unless there are no other options.
a salt bath can be over kill due to the high levels, if using salt for a fungal infection add 3.5g/l non iodised salt to the water, this will remove most forms of fungus that attack the gills, tea baths will also work due to the acidity.
stress can lower an axolotls resistance to fungal infections.
the bumps on the side are it's guts, this is nothing to worry about and is mostly due to how small it is, will become less noticeable with age.
axolotls do not poop like clockwork and depending on amount of food given can take days to do so, the main concern with constipation is air locks (quite common with hard pellet food) and impaction due to swallowing of sand, gravel etc..
if there is ammonia in the water then there is also waste being produced, as to ammonia was the tank properly cycled.

Oops I didn’t see the reply button at first. I answered you in the following message. Thanks for responding!

 

[wolfen]

liquid tests are more accurate than strip tests.
nitrite is the bad one not nitrate.
ammonia should be zero, nitrate shouldn't be zero, has the tank been properly cycled?
try to get an accurate ph reading.
kh is carbonate hardness, gh is general hardness. carbonates reside in the water helping to buffer the ph, general hardness refers to the waters mineral level, kh should between 3-8 (54-143), gh should be between 7-14 (125-251).
give daily methylene blue baths (half fish dose 10-15 mins) and see if there is improvement in leg movement.
add 2g/l non-iodised salt to any water containing axolotl (raise to 3.5g/l if there are signs of fungus) do not use salt levels higher than 3.5g/l, salt baths are not required (should not be used unless fungus is highly aggressive or cases of osmotic edema)
feed a balanced varied diet.
because of improvement when tubbed tank parameters/chemistry needs to be assessed, IMPORTANT.. ENSURE TANK IS PROPERLY CYCLED.

 

[Axilottaquestions]

liquid tests are more accurate than strip tests.
nitrite is the bad one not nitrate.
ammonia should be zero, nitrate shouldn't be zero, has the tank been properly cycled?
try to get an accurate ph reading.
kh is carbonate hardness, gh is general hardness. carbonates reside in the water helping to buffer the ph, general hardness refers to the waters mineral level, kh should between 3-8 (54-143), gh should be between 7-14 (125-251).
give daily methylene blue baths (half fish dose 10-15 mins) and see if there is improvement in leg movement.
add 2g/l non-iodised salt to any water containing axolotl (raise to 3.5g/l if there are signs of fungus) do not use salt levels higher than 3.5g/l, salt baths are not required (should not be used unless fungus is highly aggressive or cases of osmotic edema)
feed a balanced varied diet.
because of improvement when tubbed tank parameters/chemistry needs to be assessed, IMPORTANT.. ENSURE TANK IS PROPERLY CYCLED.

Thank you!
Yes, we are trying to make sure the tank is truly cycled now (originally did have problems because the shop owner swore we didn’t need to despite what I had read online. That’s why we were tubbing for awhile trying to get the tank balanced. The ammonia had gotten to zero, but I’m thinking now that this didn’t mean it was fully cycled so will continue working on that.)

We do use liquid test kits and will content monitor well. I will follow your other instructions! Thank you!

Ps. From reading everything online it seemed like “fridge fridge fridge, if there is any question.” I was nervous to jump to this so it is interesting to hear you not recommend jumping there too quickly. This is the kind of nuance I was hoping to get clarity on. Thank you!