Loosing feathery parts of the gills (not due to fish)

[mitchell101]

One of my axolotls has near no feathery parts on her gills.
One of the other ones is loosing the feathers also.
I read up and found this may be due to growing lungs but i am not quite sure.
Does this sound right?
Or is it the condition of the water?
please help because i don't want it to get worse if it is bad.

 

[Jacquie]

Hi Mitchell,

While the axolotl is at the larvae stage the lungs will develop at the same time as the rear legs. When the axolotl reaches the Juvenile to Adult stage the lungs are already well established.

Poor water quality is the usual suspect in causing the gill feathers to erode and shrivel.

Could you advise on your water parameters for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and Water temperature?

What sort of substrate are you using?

Axolotls are very messy little grots, are you being dilligent and thorough enough in cleaning up their wastes and removing left over food? This has to be done each day.

How often are you doing water changes and how much water are you replacing each time?

 

[mitchell101]

Hi Mitchell,

While the axolotl is at the larvae stage the lungs will develop at the same time as the rear legs. When the axolotl reaches the Juvenile to Adult stage the lungs are already well established.

Poor water quality is the usual suspect in causing the gill feathers to erode and shrivel.

Could you advise on your water parameters for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and Water temperature?

What sort of substrate are you using?

Axolotls are very messy little grots, are you being dilligent and thorough enough in cleaning up their wastes and removing left over food? This has to be done each day.

How often are you doing water changes and how much water are you replacing each time?

The gill feathers did not really shrivel or erode, they just shrunk until there was nearly nothing there.

I do not have those testing kits because my parents haven't bought them for me yet.
I should be get them this week.

I use bare bottom tank because it is so much easier to clean.
I clean everyday using a vacuuming siphon, this gets most of the gunk out from the bottom but there is still a lot in the floating in the water that the siphon won't get.
I am getting a turkey baster tomorrow i think.

I change the water once or twice a week, replacing 1/3 to a half.

The tank is too small for 3 axolotls which creates more mess.
My parents won't get me a new tank yet because they say we don't have any room
which we do.

They said if i keep my axies alive til Winter they may get me a new tank.

Is there anyway that it may be caused by too much aeration because a website
said that they breath through the gills and their skin but when the tank is aerated too well
they don't need the feathers so they loose them.

I have the fan on some nights which sits right next to the tank and i have a long aerating stone if too much aeration is the problem.

I have some pictures if they help.
This is the axolotl with the worst case of feather loss.

 

[theplumz]

Hi to be totally honest you sound like you are doing everything right i would just like to check when you change half the water do you use dechlorinated water (as in have let it stand for a day before using it or putting in a stress coat when you use tap water) As that can tribute to the problem of lack of oxygen which can sometimes cause the problem you have.

Although to be honest i would suggest you give it a salt bath as even though you are worried about the aeroation i know from experience that the only problems with air flow is if you have to much current in the water axolotls get stressed which can cause them to avaid food and just be a bit down in the gills.

I have 7 axolotls at my house and 46 at my mums and breed them. Every so often one will get a little bit of fungus (which sometimes you cannot even see and only really identify by them scratching there gills or rushing around the tank) sometimes it does appear as cotton wool like fluff and you can monitor it going with the salt baths.

I use a washing up bowl (new that has not been used for anything else because of chemicals) with about 3 litres of water and add 1 tablespoon of fine sea salt (bought from tescos as its cheaper and you get a much larger container than asda) stir it and just put the axolotl into it for 5 - 10 minutes twice a day, this can be done until it is gone or until the gills look better .
And does not harm the axolotl at all which to be honest when i first found fungus i was terrified as didnt know what to do and asked a pet store which kept axolotls they recommended a fish fungus treatment (DO NOT EVERY USE THIS) I was lucky enough to find this site and it tells you it is poisonous and would kill your axolotl.
I hope my info helps and if you would like any more advise you can email me direct if you would like @ beccaplumz@yahoo.co.uk
all the best Becca xxx

 

[theplumz]

sorry i forgot to add you are okay to put all the axolotls in the bowl at the same time and it is best to treat all of them to a salt bath just to be sure even if they dont show signs yet as the first case i had was caused by a little dirt (earth) from feeding them earth worms. I still give them earthworms as well as defrosted bloodworms but now my children find it very funny i have a small plastic bowl in which i put the worms with water and call it a worm wash so they don't have any dirt on them. regards Becca

 

[mitchell101]

I always make sure that i use a dechlorator, it also ages the water and gets rid of both chloromine and chlorine in the tap water.

I have a spray arm on my filter so i get no currents.

I also wash my worms in water so it's safe for my axies and so it doesn't dirty the water up.
You sure have a lot of axies. I was hoping to breed mine but then i found out my male was actually a female.

So my rents said if my axies are still alive in Winter i will get another tank and have 2 in one tank and 2 in the other so I'm going to get one more axie male and hopefully olive colour.

Do i just pick my axolotls up with my hands to put them in the salt container?
Because they arn't very good at being handled and squirm alot and try to jump out.
I've only handled my axies once or twice but i know how to handle them.

I will be sure to give them all salt baths twice everyday!

Thanks for your help!

 

[shellysue]

I know it is summer right now, but how long before your parents will be willing to call it winter and get a new tank?? If it is going to be a while, could you consider plastic storage boxes, they are cheap and would possibly cut down the risk of you losing one before the tank arrives. The less stress from overstocking would give you a better chance.
sue j

 

[Neke]

Hey Mitchell,

To repeat what Jacq has said, the most likely cause of shrinking gills is poor water quality - you can't really tell for sure what is wrong until you test the water. If your parents can't get you a test kit yet (be sure to purchase the ones with bottles and test tubes, as the dip strip tests are inaccurate) you could take a sample of the water down to your local pet store - they usually test it for free, or a small fee. Be sure to ask for the results, as you need to know exactly how much ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are in the water.

Is there anyway that it may be caused by too much aeration because a website
said that they breath through the gills and their skin but when the tank is aerated too well
they don't need the feathers so they loose them.

This is true - gills will often shrink if the water is well airated. You may not need the airstone at all, although if the axolotls do not seem stressed by it then it probably isn't doing any harm. I think the spray bar will add more oxygen to the water as well, as it creates movement on the waters surface, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

Just to clarify, Becca is right - salt baths are indeed the best way to treat fungus. However, if there is no visible fungus on your axolotls (white stuff that looks like cotton wool) then there is no need for the baths - they are used as a treatment, not a preventative measure. By carrying out salt baths for no reason, you will just stress out your axies.

And as for picking them up, you should try not to handle them if you can avoid it - it's best to scoop them up in a net or in a container, although other people may have a better way of doing it. Mine despises the net.

Just out of curiosity, how big are your tanks, and are they cycled? If they are on the small side then waste will accumulate more quickly, so water quality would be the most logical answer to your problem. You do sound like you know what you are doing though, if that helps.
Good luck

 

[Bellabelloo]

I agree with Neke in that salt baths will not be necessary unless there is fungus...this process can be stressful for your axolotl.

 

[mitchell101]

Just out of curiosity, how big are your tanks, and are they cycled? If they are on the small side then waste will accumulate more quickly, so water quality would be the most logical answer to your problem. You do sound like you know what you are doing though, if that helps.
Good luck

I know my tank is too small for three now but when i got the tank the guy i bought the axies off said i could fit 4 in it! I only bought 3 because i didn't really think 4 sounded right.
My tank is 80x40cm and water level is about 35cm high.

I do know quiet a lot about what I'm doing now thanks to this site but there are still some things I'm not always sure about.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Jennewt]

Based on the photo, the gills do look eroded to me, although a close-up of the gills would be helpful. Do some large partial water changes (up to 30% of the total volume) and get the water tested for ammonia.

 

[mitchell101]

Sorry Neke, the tank is cycled.

 

[Velaria]

I have the same problem. I have two axolotls in my tank. One is albino and the other is melanoid. They are separated from each other with a tank separator and have absolutely no access to each other.

The black one is absolutely fine. The albino one has not only lost most of the feathers from her gills, but her gills are very short. She was like that when I got her, which was at least two years ago. She was a very large juvenile when I got her, but her hind leg was bitten off and her front hand was bitten off. The hind leg regrew nicely, but on her front arm, she actually grew TWO hands! So she is quite a strange looking thing with five hands and those tiny gills. Other than the issue with her gills, she appears to be 100% healthy.

The water conditions in the tank are perfect and the tank is aerated just the TINIEST bit. I cannot find ANY external reason for why her gills would be so small.

My black axolotl has full, lush gills. Why the blackie's gills would be so nice and the albino's gills would be almost nonexistant is a complete mystery to me.

Here's the black one (hard to see him because the sand is black as well), and you can see his nice, feathery gills.

Here's the albino. You can see how her gills are almost nonexistant (and you can see her two-handed limb as well)!

 

[Darkmaverick]

Hi Velaria,

Lovely photos you got there.

Axolotls can lose their gill fimbriae (the feathery bit) from stress in their environment. The number one cause is poor water quality. If you have checked that the water parameters, temperature and currents are fine, then you can probably eliminate environmental issues as the cause. Furthermore, if it is indeed a water issue, the other axolotl will tend to be affected to a certain degree as well even though there might be different inherent susceptibility or resistance.

Other causes include an illness that may be subclinical at this stage. Some types of parasites as well as fungus and bacteria species can specifically target skin and gill tissue. The feathery fimbriae being more delicate would tend to be eroded first. However, with any disease process, often illnesses will also present with other accompanying signs like inappetance, lesions, presence of excessive mucus layer etc.

If you keep other species with your axie, it could be possible that direct physical trauma such as nibbling fish, could be the cause.

Axolotls undergoing the rare spontaneous morph can sometimes present with gill loss and inappetance as an onset sign. However, i have to emphasise this is really rare and would present with other physical conformation changes.

Lastly, it could also be perfectly natural and normal in the sense that your tank is well aerated and gills may shrink simply because there is no necessity for a voluminous plume of gill fimbriae for oxygen exchange. Genetics would largely determine this aspect.

If your axie is healthy and happy, i really would not worry too much.

Cheers

 

[Velaria]

Thank you for your reply, Ray, but I'm still not coming up with any possible reasons for the loss of her gill fimbraie.

The water temperature is fine, the Ph, nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia levels are just where they should be, the axolotl has a very healthy appetite and shows no signs of illness or parasites, I have no fish or other animals in the tank with the two axies (and as I said, they are separated, so we know that the black one isn't nibbling on the white one), and my tank IS aerated, but just so slightly. I have a sponge filter attached to an air pump, and I have an air pump regulator attached, which I've adjusted so that the air flow is really minimal.

If it were an issue with the air flow, then the black axolotl would probably be showing signs of gill loss as well, right? In fact, any issues of any kind would (and should) theoretically be affecting BOTH axolotls if they're together in the same tank! Yes, it's possible that the white one could be more susceptible to a negative tank environment than the black one is, but you would think that with such extreme gill loss on the white one, the black one would be showing SOME signs of illness as well.

As I said, I've had the white axie for about two years. She was in such bad shape when I received her, with her limbs bitten off and those small gills, that I was worried that she wouldn't make it. She actually turned out to be very hearty! Her gills looked like that when I got her, and about 5-6 months later, they started showing some signs of improvement, but now, it looks like they've regressed back to their old, shabby state. I am completely confused by all of this.

Thanks again for your help, but is there anything else you can think of?

 

[Darkmaverick]

Hi Valeria,

I genuinely believe you did a good job in terms of husbandry and water management. So to be honest, environmental stressors were lower on my differential list. Furthermore, you have ensured that the water chemistry, temp, water currents are all at optimal. Also as i mentioned previously, if it is indeed a water chemistry issue, both axies will be affected to a certain degree.

You have mentioned that this particular axie was already in a poor body condition with gill stubs when you first acquired. Poor environmental conditions in an axie's youth (in evil aquarium shops) can actually permanently affect the conformation of a growing axie.

Remember that the younger the axie, the more rapid the regeneration process. So in a possible scenario, where the young axie was exposed to harsh water conditions, it started off the cycle of gill loss. Prolonged exposure to these bad conditions would propagate a continual insult to the gill regeneration. And regeneration itself as you have discovered may not be 100% perfect. This tug or war scenario between gill erosion and regeneration may have caused a permanent conformation change to the gills, hence the stubs with little to no fimbriae even if you moved it to the best environment.

Also, despite having a good appetite and showing no visible signs of illness, it may be possible that your axie has a asymptomatic or subclinical illness and may even be a carrier of a disease. I don't want to scare you or anything but this is also a possibility. Some diseases like mycobacteria and some viral strains can remain dormant (hence asymptomatic) and recrudesce in times of stress. Normally though, the presentation would involve some degree of inappetance and loss in body condition. However, different animals react differently. Some axies may just demonstrate gill fimbriae loss simply because the fimbriae is the most delicate external anatomy.

It can be puzzling why one out of two axies kept in the same tank can display such extremes in health status. However, i would have to narrow it down to nature and nurture. Nature in that different axies(like all living things) have different genetic makeup that would determine amongst other things, immunity, regenerative ability etc. Thus some axies are more susceptible to lets say poor water conditions than another. Wildtype axies for example have been documented to be more resistant and 'aggressive' compared to other coloured axies.

As for nurture, perhaps your albino axie had a tougher life compared to the other in its youth. Sometimes external environment and factors such as nutrition can shape the outcome of one's health status in life. Sometimes damage done in the past cannot be fully rectified. The only thing i can say now is that if you have done everything you can, you have already done what you can do. There are things beyond our control.

Cheers

 

[Velaria]

Thanks so much, Ray. I think your idea about the axolotl being subject to a harsh environment when she was young is right on the money. Of course, like you said, she may have a dormant disease, but if I were to bet on it, I would say that stress on the gills is what caused it.

I got her from that site that starts with a "W" (should I mention the name?), and I've gotten a total of four axies from them over the years. The other three arrived in great condition, so I have no idea what happened to this poor girl... no idea why she was in such a bad state when I received her.

As long as she acts like she's happy and healthy, I guess I shouldn't worry too much. Honestly, I was also worried that she was morphing, in which case I'd need to modify the tank so that she would have the option to climb out of the water if she so desired. If you don't think she's going to morph (assuming that you don't think so, since you didn't mention it), then I'll just put my worries to rest about her

Thanks again!

 

[Darkmaverick]

Hi Velaria,

Based on the photos, i would not think she is morphing. Normally when an axie morphs, it would become inappetant, constantly rise to the water surface as if to get out, and would show body conformation changes.

The head will become more pointed and eyelids will start forming. The flat caudal fin (tail) will also somewhat shrink to gradually become the more tubular shaped tail of a terrestrial salamander. Gills will also be lost.

In fact for a long period of time, i was worried that one of my own axies was morphing (axolotl apollo in my gallery). I was also puzzled by his appearance. He was also a rescued axie. I have since learned from my experience that he was a 'battle-scarred' axie from his terrible childhood and despite his lack of external beauty, still possessed inner beauty in abundance.

Cheers

 

[katemichelle]

I only got my Axy's a few days ago, and neither of them have very elaborate gills, but both seem to be perfectly happy. They're eating and 'playing'. One is more active than the other, but I don't really see that as a problem. Should I? The more active one likes to swim up to the top, gulp and swim back down. He doesn't do it often, and I just tested the water and all is well within normal parameters.

Anyway, I was trying to figure out why these two didn't have such elaborate gills, and I seem to have found my answer. I hope. I'll keep an eye on them though.