My cunning Plan

I appreciate the interest and also happen to think that a dedicated worm farm is a great idea for a reliable quality live food source. (Assuming you have somewhere to dump all those worm castings).

But again, as an actual horticulturist, I think it is worth pointing out that if you are worried about pathogens and strict quarantine procedure even a contained indoor worm farm fed on household organic waste is not exactly a truly safe pathogen free sterile environment. Especially if you are concerned specifically about fungus in particular.

It's nice, it's useful, it's probably more than adequate, it may even be relatively clean in some respects (though actually slightly more risky in others). But it isn't the same thing as a sterile quarantine, not by a very large margin.
 
I think you're being a little silly
 
Nobody is talking about sterile. But there are different degrees of risk. For example, feeding tadpoles does not include the same risks as feeding earthworms, it´s substantially riskier. Saprofitic fungae in a compost bin are not a problem for axolotls, but fungus on a tadpole, could very well be fatal.
Goldfish contain high levels of thiaminase which can potentially cause severe problems for the caudates.
 
While I refuse to budge on the three week quarantine demands, and frankly still intend to continue using tadpoles despite the known risks.

If goldfish are genuinely of purely negative nutritional value I will readily not include them in the diet. They would only have been a small part of it anyway knocking them off the list is no big deal.
 
How are the babies going? Are they growing much? My babies seem to grow everyday! They are just growing their front legs at the moment. :) I feed mine BBS and I can see their cute little orange tummys.. :p
 
They seem to be doing nicely and are, I think growing rapidly (it's only been about five days and I'm not measuring them with a ruler or anything). They are always hunting mosquitoes and generally look pretty fat.

One of them at some point lost a front leg (not sure if he came like that or lost it in a fight in the tank) but seems to be fine and maybe even showing signs of regrowth already.

All of them had tiny front legs when I got them but they are now clearly developing very tiny back legs too. Which I'm pretty sure there was little or no sign of when they were just purchased.

I'm considering buying some brine shrimp as a supplement for the mosquito diet. Because they are eating those mosquitoes just fast enough that I'm not entirely sure the source populations will keep up.
 
Mathew said:
They seem to be doing nicely and are, I think growing rapidly (it's only been about five days and I'm not measuring them with a ruler or anything). They are always hunting mosquitoes and generally look pretty fat.

One of them at some point lost a front leg (not sure if he came like that or lost it in a fight in the tank) but seems to be fine and maybe even showing signs of regrowth already.

All of them had tiny front legs when I got them but they are now clearly developing very tiny back legs too. Which I'm pretty sure there was little or no sign of when they were just purchased.

I'm considering buying some brine shrimp as a supplement for the mosquito diet. Because they are eating those mosquitoes just fast enough that I'm not entirely sure the source populations will keep up.
Click to expand...
LOL yeah babies eat tonnes! BBS hatcheries are good but seeing as they're salt water bugs, the whole rinsing and then removing of dead BBS is a little bit of work. Daphnia are great though so when/if your little monsters slow down their intake, your population should have a chance to build up again lol..

I'd LOVE to see a picture of your babies if possible.. I'm curious as to what they look like so tiny with little legs.. My babies legs have to be no more than 3 mm long.. Cannot wait until they're fully grown! :D
 
Yes baby axoltls are cute!

Update Time!

One whole extra picture of the tank in my gallery.
http://www.caudata.org/forum/member...ely-bad-try-photograph-i-may-need-new-camera/

Water quality is excellent. All chemical tests are reading zero (or equivalent) and the water is crystal clear.

Excessive plants may be blocking the view a bit (I threw in piles of extra foxtail) but they provide habitat and hiding places for the axolotls that spend all day every day hanging around on branches of the floating weeds.

Hides have NOT been added to the tank. Or rather they were, the axolotls showed so little interest that they were removed again. It seems there is so much nice weedy stuff to hide in they prefer to use it. By a large margin. For now. I suspect this will change as they get older and larger.

Health of the axolotls seems good. They are growing very rapidly and after about a fortnight or so have gone from a (poorly estimated) ~3cm to a poorly estimated ~5cm. And grown rear legs.

One albino was missing a front leg and part of a gill (either prior to purchase or within the first few days), the gil is already basically grown back and the leg is sprouting. The other albino seemed like (maybe?) it was missing a foot. It definitely has all it's feet now.

The spotted wild type is growing bigger and faster than everyone else by a relatively large margin. The (I think) black or grey melanoid wild type is the smallest, but has (since the beginning) had enormous legs and hands (it seriously doggy paddles around and climbs unlike the others).

The tank has undergone a total of a single 1/3rd water change and to be honest that was probably entirely unnecessary. But to be fair the current bioload on the plant filtration with axolotls (and their food) that small is probably a little bit more than zero.

The bubbler sponge filter has been rigged up to run with less than standard pressure, and is only turned on for about 1/3rd of every day at most.

During the day I always leave the curtains just partially closed (unless it is really overcast) to provide some extra shade. Which the axolotls seem to like.

Uh, I have guests and have to run, more update later?
 
Hey Mathew, are you wanting axolotls as a pet or a small part of the chosystem-like set up you have? The ethics and values of both are quite different :(
 
Are they really that different? You really can't do both?

I would like to provide these axolotls with the best (fake) natural environment I can. This set up seems to be that environment. A nearly lifeless glass box and an unvaried and/or artificial diet does not seem to be that environment. If I were an axolotl this setup is the one I would want to be in, rather than the alternative.

So far it is working, better than I might have hoped, well enough that the health of the animals is in fact rapidly improving from the starting point. To the limited degree it is possible to tell the animals seem very happy with it. It is not unreasonable to believe it will remain highly successful.

...as long as that big one doesn't get too big and eat everyone else. He may yet need to be moved to the fish bowl.

Lets see though, the rest of that update...

OK so in case it was missed the axolotl that went missing for the first 4 days DID show up and seems fine. Still remains the most elusive (it's just sneaky) but is seen around a lot more now.

The water lawn seems to be seeding. I'm slightly concerned about the axolotls eating the seeds. But everything seems fine so they either aren't or they can digest or pass them fine.

Despite a lack of separation the axolotls don't seem to be eating each other or nipping legs. Increasingly I'm convinced the early damage I observed was present when I acquired them (their siblings back at the aquarium are doing each other some pretty substantial damage now). I am assuming they have the space and hiding places to maintain their distance if they want to. Though they often seem to hang around together to no apparent ill effect.

Their siblings back at the aquarium also are smaller and generally less healthy looking. Which is not altogether surprising considering the conditions.

Food supplies are holding up. Barely. I'm taking measures to actually promote mosquito breeding in various containers. And taking extra care to ensure the pond with the tadpoles in doesn't dry up (as it often does). Aquatic black worms remain a problematic alternative food source for various reasons. Every two or three evenings the axolotls go on a midnight rampage and eat basically EVERYTHING in the tank.

And I am having serious difficulty getting any genuinely good photos of these guys. Or the aquarium in general. The lighting is terrible the cameras refuse to properly co-operate and even the beep on the camera seems to seriously scare the little axolotls.
 
I dont think i saw this thread before. What a good idea! Your tank set up looks great! I do personally prefer the natural look especially real plants, my axolotl always prefers resting under the leaves than in his hide. I bet your axolotls love it in there!
 
what a wonderful set up. i now have a goal for my next tank. i want it more wild like this one.
 
Brand new update time.

It's been, according to time stamps, another two weeks.

Axolotls are happy and growing but I am still struggling with photos.

Here is a photo from one week ago.

Here is a photo from today.

That last shot I managed to do a quick and dirty measurement of the axolotl, and it looks like it's around about 8.5cm long. He isn't even the dangerously big one. Two of the axolotls are starting to look just tiny bit green, which is odd, and I'm pretty sure it isn't just algae.

Tank maintenance continues to be light, in the last two weeks I did one 2/3rds water change and removed and washed off the loose weeds of collected sediment before returning the best of them once. During draining I very lightly vacuum the lawn with the siphon, which is (very specifically NOT) a proper gravel vacuum, which I avoided because a more thorough clean would harm the plants and soil substrate, and because the cheapo version syphon has a convenient little shower head that will safely be unable to suck up an actual baby axolotl.

All chemical readings continue to remain stubbornly perfect. All kinds of interesting living, things, are ending up in the tank, this generally works out pretty well. The absolute worst of it all has been a short lived and rather light algal bloom of a brown powdery surface algae (a fairly harmless one I am rather familiar with from ponds). And all that did was basically require me to give the tank wall a light clean for purely cosmetic reasons.

Plants remain healthy and the Lawn seems to be transitioning to its first true complete generation of new leaves since being in the aquarium, which is important since the change in conditions means a mild change in the growth habit and form of the leaves.

Since I saw the axolotls cramming in around the bubble filter I decided they maybe wanted some hides. So I cleaned up and filed down some nice broken pottery and a somewhat large plastic aquarium hide that someone had given me and put them in.

The Axolotls apparently dislike dramatic changes to their tank and instead spent a solid 2 days in hiding FROM the scary new hiding places. They got used to them, but they still refuse to actually hide inside them. And they still like the bubbler more.
 
I am enjoying reading these posts, and thanks for the regular updates.
With regards to your bubbler, you may find your axolotl enjoy being around or in it. I have an adult who will plonk himself over his as soon as I switch it on, I am sure he likes the sensation.
 
Probably time for another update. It's been ages.

Axolotls are going remarkably well. The one with the missing leg has regrown his missing limb perfectly. All four are alive and well and growing rapidly, approaching 13-15cm in size.

Water quality remains absolutely perfect, despite the fact that I have basically done ZERO water changes since the last update... well, ages ago. All waste, even solid waste seems to be absorbed readily by the plants and snails.

Plants remain in good condition, except the Nardoo, which appears to have been killed off by too much water movement.

Food supplies are holding out and they have managed to stay on a pure live food diet.

But here are some things which happened.

Tadpole Attack!
Since an outdoor pond was being cleaned anyway I decided to "rescue" the tadpole population since they were basically doomed. Unable to store that much live food anywhere else I just threw the lot into the tank. I have no idea of the exact number, but it had to be somewhere in between 100 and 200 tadpoles. This kept the Axolotls fat as pigs for a solid week and is probably a large part of the reason they are growing so big so fast. But it also caused two other things to happen.

1) The tadpoles cleaned up the tank real nice. There was a bit of algae in one or two corners. They vacuum cleaned all surfaces including plant surfaces. It was great.

2) They viciously mobbed one particular patch of the water lawn lining the tank floor. At first I thought they were just hiding, but then it became clear they were eating... something... and ripping up the entire plant floor while they were at it. Then, since there were so many tadpoles there, the axolotls came and dug all of THEM up and ripped up the remaining loosened material. Which has resulted in a small 15cm or so diameter clearing on the tank floor. I can only assume there was something living in there, probably the escaped black worms. It isn't a problem for the tank's function or asthetic, and the axolotls seem to like stopping by and lying down in the bare muddy area from time to time. So I'm not concerned.

Mosquito Attack!
One day the axolotls got big and stopped eating mosquito larvae. This became apparent about 3 days later when my house suddenly became full of mosquitoes.

Beetle Attack!
I found a nice bite sized water beetle. So I dropped it in. It was never confirmed but they SEEM to have eaten it. So when I found another one... I dropped it in. Only as it turns out this particular sort of water beetle, if not eaten quickly enough, likes to get out of the water and fly around at night time. Which was mildly inconvenient.

Hiding In Hides?
The Axolotls now occasionally go into the hides. Not often mind you, but they are no longer scared of them. Unfortunately they are growing so fast they soon won't fit in the hides and I will need to put in new ones, which they will almost certainly be scared of. Mostly they spend so little time in there that it looks more like they just stick their heads in to see if there is food in there while they are passing by. They still mostly hunt and lurk in the grass.

The Grand Reconstruction Project
Despite the tank and everything being successful the axolotls are growing FAST. And there are those pebbles in there which they could concievably grab. So, the big refurnishing project is under way and I am growing on some new mats of water lawn and other plants specifically for the aquarium, basically I'll clean the whole thing out entirely while removing the rocks and do a completely fresh replanting.

I probably don't NEED to do that, but I've learned enough about the way things are growing in there that there are things I want to change. The new planting should include a larger amount of Eel grass among other things.

Water Fall Foam
So I have this brilliant piece of wood I want to put in the aquarium. Totally perfect. Except it has some nasty sharp little tunnels through it the axolotls will almost certainly get stuck in. So I need to fill them with something.

I saw some "Water Fall Foam" which appears to be an appropriate product, so I tried that. Unfortunately the can was a bit old and the propellant was gone, so I just eneded up partially foaming part of one hole.

Which means the piece of wood is currently in limbo until I can properly fill the trap holes in it.



Anyway, meanwhile the Axolotls have seen my camera and gone into hiding, so pictures might have to wait this time around.
 
Oh yeah, and another thing...

Whatsa Moth?
I've tried throwing terrestrial live insects like crickets and stuff into the tank. The Axolotls apparently are completely disinterested in stuff that wriggles around on the surface. I suspect it's just because they prefer to eat the readily available aquatic food, but I'm not inclined to starve them enough to be able train them into eating crickets.

Worms Are Scary
I've been throwing in the odd earth worm I've caught. I'm pretty sure they eat them, eventually. But in the mean time, if I drop the worm right on their nose, perfect food delivery style, they panic and run away.

Fish Are Hard
The axolotls seemed big enough so I put some very small fish in the tank for them to eat. They took about a fortnight to eat maybe 10 of them. Maybe. A good half dozen appear to be surviving pretty much indefinitely. Fortunately the seem completely harmless to axolotls. It's just they move fast and the axolotls while certainly big enough to eat them, aren't big enough to have a long enough reach on their lunge to actually CATCH them. They just sit there all day in the tank, staring at the fish, wanting to eat them... but mostly they can't. It keeps them busy.
 
Well time for an update and a request for some advice.

Ammonia!
At long last I am finally having some readings on some chemicals. Not that it's a good thing. And the chemical I'm getting is Ammonia. And plenty of it.

The exact cause is unclear and if there is any means of determining the difference between a crashed or faltering nitrogen cycle and a functional nitrogen cycle (with excess plants) that is eating all the nitrates and nitrites but simply has more ammonia than it can process I cannot tell.

Either way ammonia levels have been rising and I've been doing some water changes where appropriate. It's entirely possible I've just hit the limit of the biological capacity of the tank. The axolotls are hitting the 17cm mark and there ARE four of them in there and it IS only a 90cm tank. Mind you, it never had any problems that time there were 100 tadpoles in there for a week, so I dunno.

The aquarium shop guy seems obsessed with water hardness, which I apparently have zero of. He seems to think that my Ph should be fluctuating wildly, even though every measurement ever taken seems to suggest that the Ph is in fact stable at a nearly perfect 7ish. He keeps trying to sell me on adding Sodium Bicarbonate to my water, and is now claiming it should somehow also help feed the Ammonia converting stage of the nitrogen cycle. But I am leery of any additives so would like any advice anyone has on that particular additive and whether or not it is harmless.

Size Comparisons
And in other news the axolotls are otherwise still very happy and HUGE. They are now, about as big as any I've ever seen before, and at the same time also healthier looking than basically any I have seen (in person) before.

Having popped into the aquarium they came from today (to talk to aquarium guy, pick up some odds and ends, including test kits for nitrates and nitrites, which are still reading a stubborn zero, etc..) I checked out my axolotls siblings.

There were less of them than before but they were otherwise unchanged. (well they also now have a sign on the tank saying "Not for sale until they get bigger"). Remarkably they are still only about 3-4cm long, and mine are seriously ranging from about 16cm to 18cm long.

I knew axolotls could grow to available resources, but that is a big difference, and this is the first time it has occurred to me the rapid growth of my guys, which must average in excess of a millimeter of length a day may in fact be somewhat unusual.
 
messing with the ph usually causes far more fluctuations in ph than leaving it alone. if your ph is stable, I don't think you need to mess with it. I have heard that a really low ph can cause a crash in bb(I have my doubts about this), but seeing as your ph is at 7, I don't think that's the problem.
I usually add a little crushed coral to my systems to stabilize my ph, because I have a really low ph/kh here and it works great. I've been informed that adjusting a water's hardness using limestone is a far more stable/effective method, but I have all this crushed coral laying around, and it hasn't failed me yet. I do find that my tanks randomly become uncycled when there is no crushed coral in my tanks, so I've just gotten into the habit of adding it. Whether this is actually connected to my low kh/ph I'm not sure, there's usually something suspect that happens when my cycle dies that I can attribute it to(for instance last time I unknowingly used a dechlorinator that had an ammonia remover). I personally do not use baking soda to up the ph/kh, because when I first started fiddling with my ph, it had a very limited effect, and caused my ph to fluctuate rapidly, wiping out the majority of my tank.
If you do decide to take the shop keepers advise I'd suggest doing a bit of research, and to use methods that slowly change the kh, and keep the ph stable. I know some people use baking soda, but I would not recommend it out of personal experience
 
So it's been like a year since I started my axolotls now and I thought I would do an update!

So anyway, I upgraded the (by then already giant) axolotls to a new larger tank as what basically seems to have happened was they had exceeded the biological capacity of the old one in one or more ways.

The new tank has been awesome, plants and mud are doing their work and basically no water changes are required like ever. Though, sometimes some weeding or plant maintenance is required.

The most successful plants have been the water foxtail, eel grass of various sorts, and duck weed (which is so successful I should probably remove some.

The Brisbane water lawn has been less successful. Some patches still survive. But, among other things...

Territorial Lawn Mowing Axolotls
So I had these two main patches of water lawn on the bottom of the tank. They were doing OK, but one was getting a bit old and strung out (its really just too deep and doesn't get enough sun light).

So I decided to renew the tank with extra water lawn and carpet like 80% of the whole thing. It would be awesome.

So I did that.

The Axolotls were displeased. After some sulking they emerged with a plan and seriously chomped, stomped and mashed the invading water lawn very methodically until they had killed it all.

Except for the orginal two patches. Those they somehow identified and left largely untouched. Those bits could stay, it was just all the new change to tank sort of stuff that needed to be destroyed. Apparently.

So that happened.

Breeding Axolotls
Anyway. At just one year old they have bred, and I've got a pile of baby axolotls not eating mosquito fast enough to prevent them escaping into my house.

I was hoping for something exciting in the batch of offspring, but I fear they are all going to be albinos, I think the mother was the golden albino (a very nice one).

Anyway. They are I think on to eating small live food, if they don't turn out to have super interesting colors and they don't find other homes... well... yeah...

At some point I'll throw up a post on the trading pages for anyone local who wants some free baby axolotls.

I highly recommend it, it's lots of fun to raise them up from scratch instead of getting some already grown giant adult.
 
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  • Thorninmyside:
    Not necessarily but if you’re wanting to continue to grow your breeding capacity then yes. Breeding axolotls isn’t a cheap hobby nor is it a get rich quick scheme. It costs a lot of money and time and deditcation
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  • stanleyc:
    @Thorninmyside, I Lauren chen
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  • Clareclare:
    Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus Japanese . I'm raising them and have abandoned the terrarium at about 5 months old and switched to the aquatic setups you describe. I'm wondering if I could do this as soon as they morph?
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  • sera:
    @Clareclare,
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