N. crocatus Skin Discoloration/ Bacterial Infection? help Please

Iridophore

Iridophore

Member
Joined
May 21, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
7
Points
8
Location
Wenatchee, Washington
Country
United States
I have four N. crocatus that I've had for 2 weeks now. They've been doing doing great, but recently the nitrate levels in their enclosure went really high. I woke up this morning and found one of the newts had little patches on what would normally be black coloration. It is very inactive, still alive, but wont move. Im at school right now but Ill have photos in a little. Is this some sort of infection? What should I do about this?
I have the inactive one quarantined currently, and I took the rest out of the water.

Thanks
 
Now that Im looking more into it, I think its the high nitrate (lets just say, very dangerous amounts). Why I kept them in there, I dont know. One of the reasons why it probably got so bad was probably the fact I cleaned my sponge filter (probably not the best decision, but hey, you live and you learn). Im gonna keep the newts in tubs with paper towels and hides until the parameters level out again (as well as probably give them some baths in clean water).
 
Im thinking the white discoloration are chemical burns?
Hopefully its still alive when I get back home. The 3 others were still very active, but the other one wasnt looking too hot.
 
Alright, they're all doing good. The one most affected is still inactive, but looking a little better.
Here's what the coloration looks like:
IMG_0013.JPG

The best way I would describe it would be as if the color was drained from it.
I'm just waiting for some tap water to be conditioned and then I'll bathe them and start changing the water out.
So I've learned that cleaning out your filter is a big no-no.
 
Unfortunately the picture quality makes it difficult to tell to what exactly is going on.. nor do we know anything about the husbandry you are providing them. However, the symptoms you mentioned makes this issue pretty serious. Also, a foam filter won't do anything to get rid of nitrates...only water changes and plants can do that. foam filters just provide a media for bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate to colonize. So you just didn't stay on top of your water quality and parameters. This species, like many stream species, requires very clean water...deviations from this will depress their immune system and are likely to become infected by opportunistic fungi or bacteria..causing septicemia.
Personally I would have just changed the water and and given the inactive one baths in amphibian ringer because most systemic infections lead to electrolyte derangements..I also would have gotten the newt swabbed and tested to narrow down the pathology.
Unfortunately two weeks just isn't enough to know if your newts are "doing great". If this one passes you should get a necropsy done so you can narrow down exactly what your newt got infected with. This may in turn help you save your other newts.
Also, moving your newts that were mainly aquatic to a terrestrial set up abruptly comes with its own set of issues, especially with this species, so be mindful.
This genus can be tough and it sounds like you need to do more research regarding their care, which can be complex and still not very understood. There are papers out there that can guide you in the right direction. Also, as stated before, stay on top of their water quality and parameters.
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the advice.
I was keeping them in a 10-gallon enclosure with a sand/rock substrate with limestone rocks for hides. There is an Anubias nana in the corner and a 10-gallon sponge filter. I've been feeding them bloodworms and chopped nightcrawlers. They should be roughly 15 months old.
And yeah "doing great" was just in the moment, I knew something was bound to turn up and keep me on my toes.
I didn't realize how fast nitrate could increase. It went from 1 ppm to 10 in a day or two. I usually check the parameters at least 2 times a week.
I would have just given special care to the one mainly affected and put the rest back into their usual setup, but the N02 is still between 5-10 ppm. I still need to wait a day or two for the water to clear. Tomorrow I'm probably gonna grab some plants to help level it all out. The newt is still displaying the discoloration, but its condition has gotten better. The discoloration doesn't show very well on photos.
I'll have to fill the tub I have the other 3 in with water. I guess I was just worried about there being no filter, but I didn't realize abruptly switching to a terrestrial setup could have consequences.
I don't think any of my local vets deal with salamanders, and even if they did it'd probably cost a pretty penny. If the inactive one's condition worsens though I'll probably end up seeing if they could do anything about it.
I'll also have to order some ringer solution, how do you usually use it?

Thanks once again.
 
IMG_0015.JPG
This is a pretty good example of it.
Come to think of it, this is the same side as the picture above. It could just be the lighting, or the discoloration could be spreading... Uh oh.
 
In reality 10 ppm of nitrate isn't very high and won't cause issues for short periods of time even to sensitive newts...unless there are other underlying issues. Why don't you just do a water change in your current set up instead of "waiting for the water to clear"? If you are waiting for you Anubias to "clear" the nitrate then you are going to wait a while...
I get my ringer from Carolina Lab supplies and have them take a bath for 20 min or so daily...but it is no replacement for treating an infectious diseases and/or sepsis.
This is going to come off as harsh but should you be caring for animals if you are unwilling to/or cant afford medical intervention when things go wrong? I only say this because I've had some trouble with this species as well.. even when my husbandry and water quality was immaculate. the answer to my problems came from necropsies and swabs..and neither are cheap.
1) I recommend you not be cheap and find a vet that has experience with amphibian medicine ASAP! Of note, even the vets that are experienced with amphibian medicine don't know much about this species so be ready for that. They can however help narrow down the issue. I would also try to see them sooner because if you wait until the condition worsens..its too late. Unfortunately, when amphibians show clear signs of systemic infection..its usually too late, so waiting usually does nobody any good.
2) It's also not a bad idea to reach out to whoever sold them to you and let them know you are having this issue. maybe they had a similar problem and have some insight.
3) If the newt passes..preserve it in a jar with two parts everclear and one part distilled water, then, get a necropsy done on it..a vet can usually order one..usually cost about $75.
4) Do a water change and put the healthy ones back in their enclosure, I'm not sure behind the rationale of waiting for nitrate to "clear".
 
So, rookie mistake on my part, I just realized that it's 5-10 ppm nitrite (N02) not nitrate (N03). Completely missed the letter difference.
I would totally go all-in on treatment, but I'm a freshman with no job (can't get one either for another year or two), and make around $15 a week if I'm lucky. I don't know if my parents are willing to spend a decent chunk o' money for a newt.
I'm gonna keep them in the temporary setups for now. Gonna grab some more plants tomorrow and hopefully get some ringer solution.
They all seem to be doing good right now, but we'll see what happens in the morning.
I'll email the seller about it too to see if they have any advice.
 
And that’s unfortunately what I’m getting at. Pets aren’t disposable and as an owner you need to have the responsibility of only having a pet if you’re properly set up for one. For example: Have I done my homework on the specific care of this animal? Can I provide it with this care? Can I afford buying and keeping the animal? Can I afford medical intervention if anything goes wrong? You picked a beautiful but advanced species to keep, there is a small margin for error. Zoos have had difficulties creeping them alive and have had to spend considerable money to figure out the problem. Most people on this forum caring for this species have ran in to issues, however, most successful keepers have had to spend the money to dial their care in.. and usually have jobs that can fund their hobby. Im
I know this sounds harsh but I’m just trying to paint a realistic picture here and saving you the pain, guilt and hassle of losing a whole group
I think you should start with an easier species and once you have the experience under your belt, and the funds to support more advanced care, I would start this project up again. If you are set on keeping them, which sounds like you are considering you’re treating this whole situation with an “oops” like it’s spilled milk. Stay on top of their husbandry, check parameters daily until you have a truly cycled system.. change their water when it’s unfit and don’t let any others pass.
 
I keep Neurergus and had a lot of bad luck in the past, they need very regular water changes and spend most of their time near the air stone and filter. They benefit from the fresh change of water constantly as mentioned it is really worth changing partial water quantities every 2-3 days with fresh cool water. Perhaps put two buckets of water outside and use that, have a constant supply of water to do the water changes if your worried about water quality
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • Shane douglas:
    with axolotls would I basically have to keep buying and buying new axolotls to prevent inbred breeding which costs a lot of money??
     +1
    Unlike
  • Thorninmyside:
    Not necessarily but if you’re wanting to continue to grow your breeding capacity then yes. Breeding axolotls isn’t a cheap hobby nor is it a get rich quick scheme. It costs a lot of money and time and deditcation
     +1
    Unlike
  • stanleyc:
    @Thorninmyside, I Lauren chen
     +1
    Unlike
  • Clareclare:
    Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus Japanese . I'm raising them and have abandoned the terrarium at about 5 months old and switched to the aquatic setups you describe. I'm wondering if I could do this as soon as they morph?
     +1
    Unlike
    Clareclare: Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus... +1
    Back
    Top