Newbie: My Plans/Tank Build

[StewRat]

I'm starting this thread now because I'm at the earliest stages of setting up a tank, and it may be helpful to others in future as a work in progress. That will be true regardless of the ultimate results

Reading furiously over the last few weeks, I've gained tons of essential knowledge from the posts here, and the links to other sites. The downside is it's turning out to be a bit more involved than I first imagined, the upside is the final result will be designed to be better for the inhabitants - and me!

So, where I am now ...

I got a 48" x 12" x 12" tank off ebay, local collection for only £15 inc top glass and sliders. It had a high corner crack that contributed to the price, and a low corner one I only just discovered, both now patched/repaired.

I've got a 50mm slab of polystyrene for it to sit on - and an extra leg to fit to my Ikea desk that it will sit along the back of. I know 50mm is overkill but read on (and it was all B&Q had) ...

I'm planning to house two axies in this, and reckoned the high length:height/depth ratio was a good choice for this.

I prefer things to be as "natural" as possible (while acknowledging the artificiality of it all) so my aim is to have filtration, plants and live food (if I can get that past the wife) all in the tank with as little maintenance as possible.

I realise it is possibly many weeks before the axies can be introduced.

Current thinking/exploration:

I'm planning to create some artificial rock formations that will a) hold back sand for planting, b) create different levels c) create natural looking hides and d) possibly hide things like the filter (an internal, foam canister, power head filter with with spray bar off ebay). The idea is to have some densely planted areas where things like shrimp and guppies may hide/spawn, and some low level plain areas that area easily cleaned after feeding etc. It will all have some sand, but different levels, none too deep.

The filter can cycle this volume of water about 3 times per hour which seems ok?

For the artificial rock, I'm planning to use the offcuts of polystyrene from the base, mucho carving, coat in grout and acrylic paint then seal with a pond sealant (probably with a bit of sand in the final coat to give it some texture). One larger piece in one corner, a piece round the filter 1/3 along and maybe one other outcrop, all trending away from left to right. In my mind I see a shallow corner of a mexican lake with a bit of tree stuck in it, but who knows how close to that I will get - or if the axies will care.

I've got some java moss growing in a jar while planning goes on, and plan to use some elodea from my (equally self-contained) small garden pond. Will get other plants as I go along. I'm also hoping that the garden pond water might be useful in starting the nitrogen cycle, maybe along with a couple of new goldfish that will go in the pond afterwards?

Thermometer and test kit on the shopping list for next steps.

Sound ok?

Anything major I haven't thought of?

Watch this space ...

Edit:

I realise on re-reading this that it may come across as sounding like I know what I'm doing! So just to clarify: I don't, but I *think* what I'm planning is based on what I've read here and that's really what I'm trying to document here - along with corrections and direction from the community - a from-first-principles set up. My experience is only that we used to have 3 tanks fo goldfish for the kids, and I built and maintain a naturalistic outdoor pond. I realise neither of these necessarily translates much to this world.

 

[StewRat]

Update - done so far ...

Added the extra leg to my desk - quite a bit of fettling to do to get the overall surface level, but think I am there (I'll add water in stages to be sure). Each leg supports 50Kg according to Ikea, and I'll have 115Kg water, c 20Kg tank + bits n pieces and my laptop. 5 legs shoudl be ok?

Java moss in a jar with some Baby Bio to grow on.

2 Anubias petit in water

Elodea in the pond on standby

Argos play sand waiting to be washed

Decor under way - see this thread - it deals with the rocks, I'm also constructing a tree root thing from pipe and stuff which will have the same sealing issues.

Bought a pipette, and a syphon for water changes.

API test kit yet to be bought. (note to self - you keep forgetting to get a thermometer).

Rough plan now is to gradually add water and decor/sand as completed. Run it, change water and monitor it until it seems stable. Then add plants and guppies to cycle. Then find axies.

 

[kiathepooch]

i too seem to keep forgetting to buy a thermometer!

Sounds good though,i've got a similar plan going!hope you can find some axies!

 

[StewRat]

Seems about time for a weekly update.

Slow business this ...

For anyone in the UK, I can recommend Argos play sand as easy to clean, quick settling. Your mileage may of course vary.

That's the good news.

I was really quite pleased with the results of my rock construction, apart from one thing. The largest piece - a diagonally thrusting piece of multi layered schist (?) rock with integral hides - has so much buoyancy I cannot get the damned think to stick to the bottom of the tank!

Plan B attached a large stainless steel tool to it - pulled itself free.

Plan C attached substantial quantities of ceramic tiles to it - still buoyant.

Plan D (won't be complete until weekend) is to hollow out the polystyrene, pack with the tiles and then re-seal.

Ppl keep asking why I didnt just buy decor or use real rocks and its becoming increasingly difficult to explain my vision.

But ... when all the rock pieces and the tree root (all hand crafted) were in place with the sand for a few fleeting minutes, it all made sense, so I shall persevere.

I've also modified the filter output to feed a long spray bar with custom holes.

More plants ordered, tank currently 3/4 full of water (cautiously testing repairs).

API Test kit and a thermometer have been ordered.

Getting there ...Axies by Xmas?

 

[Bellabelloo]

I think we need pictures

 

[kiathepooch]

Ditto bellaboo!pictures!I'm intrigued as to how your tanks looking!

 

[Icarez]

Isn't Anubias a tropical plant?
You got me curious, some pictures would indeed be nice

 

[StewRat]

Pics will come when a) its worth looking at and b) I nick my wife's camera (my Blackberry takes rubbish pics). Hopefully I will get this lump of "rock" pinned down this weekend and start to share some pics.

Throughout the process I've been conscious this might all end in tears and so have been too arrogant to document the dead ends and mistakes along the way.

Anubias I believe is ok as a cold water/low light plant.

 

[modestum]

Anubias is a good low light plant, i keep it in my tank!

 

[MereB]

Anubius will be fine. There are a lot of 'tropical' plants that are perfectly happy in cooler water they just grow slower. Light is usually the issue with them in axie tanks.

I had thought that the foam might be too buoyant BUT had hoped that the weight of the grout would overcome it
Hollowing it out sounds like a good plan though :happy: Good luck!

but I'm going to have to join the others.....
PICS PICS PICS PICS PICS :happy: we don't care if they are pics of failed attempts. Even those would help others avoid the same pitfalls
Even a pic of the tank empty with everything in place so we can see what you're trying to create would keep this mob at bay I suspect

Mere.

 

[StewRat]

Pics this weekend I promise - but some of it will be as a warning because I'm just about to give up on my big bit of "rock". I've hollowed out large sections of it - all the thick areas - and packed the spaces with tiles. It weighs a ton to pick it up, but it still floats!

I suppose I shouldnt be surprised when I consider how little foam is in a buoyancy aid that will support 10s of Kg of human weight, and we're happy it does it then!

 

[MereB]

I'm sorry it's not working. I'm not sure what else you could do to make it less floaty Short of pouring something inside to dissolve the foam I really don't know. Everything I can think of to dissolve it would leave it unsafe for a fish tank so I'm really stuck.
Such a shame it's refusing to play the game right for you

I have seen people use that gapfiller foam stuff to sculpt things for aquariums and then seal it. Could try finding a nice big rock that you you could put that over but not sure how it would work just know I've seen it done.

 

[StewRat]

I have at last made some decent progress this weekend, so here are some pics and updates.

First the overall scene so far:

For the record, this is what my big floaty rock formation looked like:

Maybe one day I'll get a vivarium to use it in

In it's place is a construction made from slate and granite (poundland place mats and coasters) smashed up and layered ...

to try and get something that remotely matches the home made rock that did work at the other end:

Which it may do with a dusting of sand and some moss on it.

And finally, in the centre, my hand made pipe and bandage construction "root":

This hides the small filter behind it, connected to a good length of holed tube as a spraybar which extends below the top ledge pretty much all the way to the right end.

The idea is to get the java moss really growing on this to provide cover for live food, and to plant at angles around the base to give more axie cover in addition to the hides on the left side. It also has a couple of "cups" for the anubias to grow in.

I'll have quite a few plants around each end - java fern and indian fern at the moment, plus the floating salvinia natans. Don't knwo about using elodea from the pond - it has shed an awful lot of leaves while in a quarantine container so might be quite messy.

So that is it so far - temp has been fairly steady at 66-68F, haven't tested water yet.

I need to get the cover glasses and slides set up on this before I knock something into it.

It is starting to feel like its been worth it now though ...

 

[ChrisCook18]

I really like the look of your tank set up at the moment, it looks pretty similar to mine, but I'm debating what plants to put in my tank at the moment. Can you recommend anything?

 

[StewRat]

I really like the look of your tank set up at the moment, it looks pretty similar to mine, but I'm debating what plants to put in my tank at the moment. Can you recommend anything?

Probably too early for me to comment as I'm not an expert and everything that is going in this tank has been decided on from other posts on this forum

The java moss and java fern seem to be fairly universal favourites for axolotl conditions.

The indian fern (has other names) recommended for growth that will spread out across the surface.

The floating Salvina Natans are a bit crazy - kinda like jelly fish with green pleats of leaves on the surface and hairy roots hanging down. Were recommended for surface cover/shade and hiding places for guppy/shrimp fry.

There are many different kinds of anubias - the petit version is as the name suggests small.

I'm aiming to try and let the plants establish a bit - see if anything doesn't flourish - then add guppies/shrimp to cycle the tank and hopefully establish themselves and find all the hiding places before the axies get added.

 

[MereB]

That looks great :happy: I love the 'root' it looks really cool you did an awesome job on the construction!

ARGH that rock would have looked so good stupid foam and it's buoyancy properties The tank still looks great with the plan B slate pile but I can understand how frustrated you must be with it.

I've posted this a few times but do you think I can find any to link to now?

OK plants. Now you will need to bare in mind I am in a state in Australia that has some of the strictest quarantine laws in the world and a lot of what you have access to I have never even seen and it's illegal to bring into the state but here is what I know.

If you want to keep your tank in a wardrobe or in the spare room with the window blocked out and never ever turn a light on then your only option is plastic. Real plats NEED light.

I know everyone here is VERY anti-light but if you give your axies a few nice DARK hides there is no reason at all that you can't have an aquarium light on for 4-6 hours each day or have the tank is a nice bright room where it get's sunlight or is lit but the room's light each evening.

Some of my axie tanks are in front of large windows and the late morning/early afternoon sun streams through them and into the tanks each day as a result I can grow some plants that you wouldn't normally see in an axie tank BUT all the axies have plenty of dark hides in the form of logs then can climb into and rock caves so they can get out of it if they want to but usually they are out on the sand enjoying the sunshine

I know this looks like a short list and there are plenty of other plants that fit the light requirements for each section but not the Temp and or pH range that you'd find in an axie tank. They would grow just not thrive as well as these ones would.

SO plants for the tank that gets a few hours of good light and you can google these if you want pictures
Java MOSS
anubias nana
Vallisneria but avoid any corkscrew/twisted varieties Ammericana Gigantica is excellent for these conditions.
Elodea but this one is illegal over here in Australia because of it's weed like tendency to take over if it gets into waterways.
...and my personal faves
Ambulia (Limnophila sessiliflora or Asian Ambulia and NOT its cousin Limnophila aquaticum which requires more light and slightly warmer water)
Water sprite - (ceratopteris thalictroides) my guys LOVE this one. It's under water leaves are VERY different to it's out of water ones which is what it will have in the shops since they are usually grown emersed to be sold as it's faster. But the submerged leaves are beautiful and very fern like. My babies in particular love sitting in the huge cluster of leaves that sit just below the surface of the water. It is a nice fast growing plant that sends it's leaves to the surface quickly which gives great shade underneath and wonderful hiding spaces. It also miltiplies by producing plantlets from it's leaves which you can plant as you find them and they quite quickly turn into big adult plants. LOVE LOVE LOVE this plant.
If you want another good floating plant then Ceratopteris Pteridoides (Giant water sprite) is a good one that grows quickly which means it will remove more Nitrate from your water faster

You might be able to grow a few of the Echinodorus (sword plants) but avoid any that have variegated leaves particularly of they are green and RED. Red plants require a lot of light. The regular old Amazon swords and maybe the melon swords are probably your best bet but these do require some light.

Plants where the tank is lit for around 7 hours a day with relatively good light.
all of the above PLUS the medium light loving plants
Echinodorus - including some of the variegated varieties but avoiding the pygmy chains and any that are predominantly red they like very strong light from my experience
Lilaeopsis (a cute little grass like ground cover)
Java FERN
Cabomba caroliniana (pH up to about 7)
Bacopa (Australis, monnieri, and maybe Carolinana if you have the 7 hours but not if less than that)

You could try the Blyxa family if you're feeling confident but they may fail to thrive in the slightly too cold water.

If you have good light for more than 7 hours then there is a whole other set of the high light, low temperature plants that open up to you as well including a lot of the other species of moss and hair grass as well as some of the red plants.

If you wanted to do your own research you can
The planted tank is a really good list to look through and when it's up and going again, it's down at present Tropica also has a wonderful A to Z plant list that will give you all the plants specifics if you click on the one you're interested in.
Just go for ones that fit your lighting conditions, are happy in colder water with the appropriate pH range and are easy to care for. Both those sites will also tell you whether they are fore, mid or background plants as well which is handy.

 

[StewRat]

Credit where it's due - I think the original version of that post (I couldnt find it either) is what led me to get Indian Fern, which I think is the same as Water Sprite. It's the one planted around the root in my pics.

 

[kiathepooch]

Your tank looks really good!impressive all the work you've put in,the "wooden root" looks authentic!I'm sure when you get your axolotls they'll enjoy all the hardwork you've put in!
Plant wise I only have java moss and cabomba in mine at the moment.I was planning to add a few marimo moss balls and some sort of plant as a filter but am undecided on that front yet!


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.788316,-2.406744

 

[StewRat]

For those that have enquired about how the "root" was made:

The basic trunk is 50mm dia (I think) grey pipe, with a vertical slot cut out the back (a bit less than half) to clear the filter.

I siliconed a couple of lengths of 22mm dia white pipe up each side just off the rear edge to bulk it out a bit.

Then I cut lengths of the white pipe and (with oven gloves) softened them over a cooker ring and twisted them about, dipping in water to set them. Cut them at angles and they became the arms and legs when siliconed on.

I think I must have had a bit of yet another inbetween size pipe kicking around that I cut diagonal slices of to make the upward facing "cups" - or broken branches as I perceive it (not sure what kind of strange tree with mixed up roots and branches I thought this was, but there you go).

Then I dipped cotton compression bandages (loose weave) in watery grout - like plaster bandage - and used it to mould an overall shape that was a bit less pipe-like and blended things together. That was actually a very messy, frustrating job.

Then I started painting layers of various grout/water/acrylic paint mixtures over it. Some thick and dark trying to get textures and build lumps etc, some watery in different shades for variety, some final thick consistency and light colour for highlights.

Oh and I drilled lots of small holes in various recessed bits to help water flow into the filter from different directions.

Then finally several layers fo G4 sealant over the top.

Would I do it again? Not sure. I'm glad I did it and satisfied with the result but It was a stupid amount of work (and time consuming with all the coats, drying time etc) for something that exists perfectly adequately in nature, and if I valued my time would cost many more times the price of the real and artificial items I eschewed.

 

[danchristopher]

Your tank looks awesome
And so do your artificial tree root and the rock formations. You've kinda inspired me to try different things with my tank. It has recently been looking a bit sad in comparison to some of the other amazing looking tanks on here, haha ;D

I'm sure your axies will love it.
What else is left to do on your list, if anything?