Our new pet

[stephanie]

Thanks for the advise. I won't be removing Steve from his tank anymore for feeding. What you've explained is so OBVIOUS, I just wasn't thinking.

I'm going to need a more terrestrial set up for him. He seems to prefer being out of the water for a good part of the day. I don't have a lot of extra cash laying around... so, I'll be watching our local paper for an ad for a used aquarium.
I really appreciate all the help, especially the photos.
Stephanie

 

[joseph]

Stephanie: Before garage sales start to dry out...make a run through em. I got one of my tanks free from someone who didn't want it anymore.

 

[kaysie]

I'll always praise the use of Rubbermaid tubs! They're cheap, and they've got locking lids. and they've got a lot more floor-space than most aquariums.

 

[russ]

Just my two cents with all the rhetoric that was added to this stream. How many of you began your interest in caudates as a child by collecting an animal and keeping it? Most probably. So why not Stephanie's? I'd rather see one collected by the intended keeper that masses collected for the pet trade so that maybe half might make it to a keeper.

RUSS

 

[stephanie]

I like the idea of using the plastic rubbermaid tubs. I have some extra in storage--much cheaper than buying a new OR used tank. (I did hit the garage sales today...found lots of cool stuff, just no aquariums. I'm a garage sale addict.

)
If I do use a rubbermaid tub, how do I set it up? I obviously need the lid, but what about airflow? Do I put holes in the lid? And what about airation and filtration? Should I continue to use an airstone? I could drill a small hole to fit the tubing through.
Speaking of filters, I saw one at the store today. It was just a general variety store--not a pet store, so there wasn't anyone to ask pet related questions. The filter was inexpensive and simple. It had both charcol and some other filter stuff. It wasn't an underground, instead it just would attach to the inside of a tank with air flowing through it. How does it work or better yet, does it work--meaning actually filter. LOL It was only 6 bucks. The filters were replaceable at about 2 bucks each. Anyone know what I'm rambling on about?
Now, back to the potential habitat. If I use the tub (which is about 3 feet by 1.5 feet and about 8 inches deep), do I keep it slanted so that water is only on one end? If I want to have a land portion do I have to use dirt? Or can I just use small gravel with a few larger rocks? I'd like to have some greenery, but I'm definitely not a green thumb. Are artificial plants OK?
Thanks again for helping me get off to a great start. You guys are the best.
Stephanie

PS I could also use a deeper tub about 18 inches deep instead of 8. I have a few of those also. Would that be better?

 

[kaysie]

I've got mine set up with airholes in the lid (drill them from the inside out, so you dont have any sharp pointy stuff sticking in). Drill a hole for the airline. You dont want an overhang type filter, because you need the secure lid (no escapes!). Instead of slanting (which works well), you can build an over-water type island, so the land sits over top the water. This can be done with legos, or rocks (slate pieces to make up the 'legs'). Artificial plants are fantastic, just make sure they're soft and not sharp. I've got a 'black' thumb, every plant I've ever even looked at has died (except for my lilies and the few straggling strands of hornwort).

the deeper tub depends on how much water you want to put in. Deeper tub = deeper water. I'm not a Taricha expert, so one of the afficianodos can tell you which would be better.

 

[mark]

ARRgh.... I just wrote a huge post, and accidentally hit the back button and lost it all! I am too lazy to repeat the whole thing right now, but I will try to tomorrow sometime, as I think I have some good advice as I am someone who also has a fairly new T. grans. who is being stubborn about eating. Here are the main points I wanted you to know:
1. Waxworms (small ones) are another good food possibility, if you can find some live ones at a pet store near you.
2. When feeding him for now, leave the food in and walk away or at least keep your hands out of the tank, because one of mine gets stressed if my hand is anywhere near the tank.
3.The plastic container seems to me like more of a hassle, at least compared to just a simple 10 gallon (under $20), although I do like the large size that you mentioned. I think the plastic would make it hard to view them though; I like to look from the side and watch them. Anyway, that is just me.
4. Lastly, dont give up. I have had quite a few of these newts, and with time they become great "pets", and ones that Ive had for a while get excited for food when I enter the room or open their top, and become good beggars. It will just take some time.

 

[stephanie]

Mark,
Don't you just hate it when you loose something you've spent time & energy on?!? I am now getting very good at saving wp docs as I type.

Needless to say, I still forget sometimes and one of my kids come along and the mess me up!
Thanks for the info and encouragement.

I spent all day getting my newt set up in his new habitat. He is now happily (or so I hope) situated in a large rubbermaid tub. And yes, the viewing isn't ideal, but at least he has more room to move around.
It was quite easy to set up actually. I have a cool drill and I made a series of small holes along one side of the lid. One of those holes was made big enough to fit the plastic hosing where I attached the pump with an airstone.
Next, I added a layer of smooth natural colored aquarium gravel (a mix of lg & med. size rocks). I found 3 large rocks from my yard and I boiled them for a good 30-45 minutes. I used them to build up one side of the tank to make it more shallow and to support a reptile dish that is placed at water level. The dish is quite large and looks like a bunch of rocks. I plan to use this as a spot to feed Steve. This will make clean up easier. The water is about 8-9 inches deep at one end and 5 or 6 at the shallow end. I placed a long piece of aquarium wood leaning up against the reptile dish that he can use to climb in and out.
Tomorrow I plan to get some plants to add hiding spots and a more natural appearance and buy a corner filter.
I used some of the water from the original tank, so it was about a 75% water change. I conditioned the water with 2 different products made by Tetra. I double checked all the levels--ammonia, nitrite, and PH. They all were great including the water temp which was just below 70 degrees F.
When I let Steve go into his new home, he was very curious. He swam around and explored every inch. He loves the new space above water. He crawls all around inspecting everything--looking for an escape!

Too bad, so sad! This is escape proof!
Here is a link to some pictures I down loaded to the internet. They aren't that great since I used my cell phone digital camera.
{http://www.msnusers.com/mynewt}
Let me know what you think.
Stephanie

 

[kaysie]

That looks very nice.

What you can do to facilitate better viewing is to cut a large hole in the lid and glue window-screen into it. This will also help with ventilation and to keep the tank cooler.

I think this setup works better than a regular tank because of the opaque lid, it makes it 'shadier' in the tank. It should be about the animals, not about the owner.

But he looks very happy. It will look great when you get some plants in.

 

[stephanie]

HI everyone!
Here's an update...
Steve is still alive and apparently healthy and happy. But, he WILL NOT eat. I have tried just about everything that has been suggested. He simply shows NO interest in food. I can't figure how he is still functioning. I miss a meal by a few hours and you'd think I was knocking on death's door--starving to death! LOL
I'll continue to perservere. Let me know if you have any MORE ideas or helpful suggestions.
Stephanie

 

[mark]

Stephanie,

I have mentioned it in other threads but I am in almost the exact same situation with a T. granulosa. I got him 3 1/2 weeks ago and he is in a quarantine tank, and has only eaten on 4 occassions, and one piece of food each time. It has been over a week since I have last witnessed him eat. I have a few of these newts in another tank and all of them have been doing great for months.

After this much time, I think that he just may not adapt ever, and I fear the worst any day. I feel like you are having the same frustration, and I am sure it is not you. I have never had a newt or sal. that is this difficult. I got him at a pet store, so who knows what he has been through, but I think he may have gotten really stressed, and will not go back to normal behavior. I have never in my life had newts refuse earthworms, red wigglers, baby crickets, waxworms etc. like he does. I dont regret my purchase, because I know I am taking better care of him than the store was (they had goldfish in the tank, and some sinking pellets that there is no way he would eat; he was very skinny when I bought him but also very alert and no visible signs of disease) Of course I will not give up on him, and will continue my attempts...
It looks like my quarantine tank will be a permanent setup for him, unless he really shows signs of health and starts eating regularly.

Anyway, I wasn't going to offer this idea, but now I think it might make sense. If I were you, I would go to where you found him, or a similar area in his natural range, and let him go. These pets are common in the pet trade and I am positive that even if you dont find one at a pet store near you, people on this site would have ideas of where to get one fast, even shipped to you if need be. You could have a healthy one within a few days if you started looking now. Just my opinion. I just don't think this newt is going to adapt well, and sure don't want this situation to discourage you after you have spent so much time researching and getting into it.

 

[pin-pin]

Stephanie, here is a movie of how I feed my newt:
http://www.caudata.org/people/apples/torosa_feed.mov

John, if you could reduce the size, i'd appreciate it. Otherwise, the download is pretty long.

Before putting Steve back, I'd make sure that you didn't expose him to any pathogens. As cruel as it sounds, sometimes when an animal is in captivity for a long period of time and has been exposed to pathogens, (from your fish for example) it's best not to put it back into the wild.

That's just my two cents. Keep trying with Steve.

(Message edited by apples on September 11, 2004)

(Message edited by apples on September 11, 2004)

 

[jesper]

lol, just can't help myself.

 

[joseph]

I think that when Stephanie got hers(depending on how serious the kids were playing with them) it should have been very stressed, but in good condition.

I would try a small amount of blackworms in the water area and just leave it there. IME, they don't die and even small pieces live for weeks-there seems to be evidence that they can regenerate too.

 

[stephanie]

I'm going to try earthworms again and black worms. Earthworms seem to be the most popular well like food item according to everyone here. Joseph's suggestion about black worms might work for me. The land area that I have for Steve has a shallow pool where I could contain the black worms. Maybe he'll finally be hungry enough to eat! I know for sure...he doen't like blood worms...tubifex worms...nightcrawlers from my yard (either choped or live!)
He is still very alert though. He has a regular pattern of behavior. He "sleeps" in the day and in the evenings he "sits" up and looks around, exploring his tank. He definitely has taken a preference for land. I feel bad that my set up in mostly aquatic, but I don't want to change it until he starts to eat.
If he doesn't eat soon, I may take the hour+ drive and return him to his natural habitat. It would be so upseting to watch him die of starvation. How likely is it that he would make it back in the wild? And how likely is it that he would introduce foreign germs & such to that environment?
I'm not ready to do this yet, but I'm thinking about it.
Stephanie

 

[kaysie]

The land preference may be due to stress.

Go to a baitshop and see if you can find leaf-worms. Thats what I use. Chopped nightcrawlers work great too. But dont give up. Try everything. There are tons of foods out there. Try wiggling it in front of his face, but dont hit him with it (this startles some animals). Try feeding at night when he 'wakes up'. But keep the room dim and quiet.

 

[joseph]

You may have to check the laws. Just as it could be illegal to remove animals(it often requires a fishing license and none can be taken on state or National parks without a special license) so could releasing it. If the laws allow you to, I see no reason why not, but take care. For one, release it at night preferably. Put it exactly where it used to be or somewhere near it as these newts have definite homing capacities-studies have shown that they could be moved several miles away and some would make and complete the journey. Obviously very risky however.

I'm certain that this have sparked an interest in caudates, and there are some species that are captive bred. Some examples are axolotls, P. waltl, and quite a few others are bred by the forum members here.

Good luck, whatever your choice!

 

[william]

if you are going to put it back after all and you want to carry one with caudates then i would certainly suggest firebellies of one species or the other but chinese or japanese firebellies, paddletails etc are good for beginners.

good luck in the future with any new newts i hope they live a long life

 

[candie]

hi my name is candie and i have been looking through this site and have found it wonderfull and full of information. i just wanted to state my opinion to the ones who keep telling stephany that she should return steve. like stephany my son has found a salamander that i have decided to let him keep. i have been on different sites for 12 hrs now finding all the different information on how to care for it. ours is an adult tiger salamander. but back to my point of releasing them, in my situation and i'm assuming in stephanies as well, that releasing them would be a definate death sentance. i have found that, at least around here, that once the kids find these salamanders or frogs that they are handled and played with(tortured) till their deaths. i have made my son in the past release these animals whenever he finds them just to find out that other kids catch them again and kill them so i decided this time that it would be kinder to give this salamander a good home and care for him properly rather than release him and have other children find him again.

 

[joseph]

Candie: Sadly, that is quite true(personal experience myself on this matter), but fortuanately salamanders are quite secretive animals and are seldom found unless you know what to look for. Much more vulnerable to this kind of abuse would be toads...though newts could be possible targets as shown by this story.

However, if the animal is not adapting to captivity, then I would say release is the best option. If stephanie(how has the newt been doing steph?) manages to find a way for it to feed then the choice is totally up to her. keeping such an animal in the house will likely keep the children interested in animals...I learned about amphibians myself through bullfrog tadpoles. CA could definetly spare a few of those!