Persistant floating from juveniles?

Alkylhalide

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So I have two juvenile axolotls that were from my last batch of eggs, they are the last two but I cant bring myself to sell them. They are two months old.

So a few weeks ago they what seemed to have swallowed air.. Which is not a huge deal. I just lowered the water and kept feeding them.
It just kept getting worst and worst and I thought i may of needed to euthanise, though they kept eating and pooping well so I wasnt going to.

But i realised, they eat/poop, but why arent they releasing the bubble? They were both floating on their backs for two whole weeks until one morning they were perfectly fine again.

Now its been 2days since they were fine, now are floating again! On their side, not as severe as before.

I use aged dechlorinated tap water. Only 2/18 of the babies I raised had this problem.. It doesnt seem like air in their stomach, but i am pretty sure I see an air bubble..

Does anyone have any insight? I feed them frozen bloodworms and they are about 2"
 
Some like to float. If they are still eating and pooping you shouldn't worry too much. I freaked out when one of mine was a chronic floater, thinking I must have done something wrong since everyone else stayed at the bottom. After a few days of observation, I caught the little butthead spit out a bubble and sink to the bottom, only to go to the aerator, eat a bubble and float back up and hour later. He eats fine and sinks when he feels like it but has always just liked staying near the top.
 
Have you read this thread? It seems that some are genetically predisposed to floating - they have a mutation that means they can't breathe out properly.
 
Have you read this thread? It seems that some are genetically predisposed to floating - they have a mutation that means they can't breathe out properly.


Yes i have :) that was my best guess on what the issue was. I have floaters, but they dont float upside down or on their side, and not for weeks at a time.. This made me think it was a genetic disposition. I just wanted some opinions

Now lets say it is predisposed, what do I do?
 
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It was worst before.. Completely on their back.
 
They are still floating.. Still eating/pooping. They probably arent eating as much as they would like though i do feed them wit a medicine dropper still, it is just hard for them to grab the food.


Does anybody have any idea on what I should do? My gut says euthanise but my heart says keep waiting to see what will happen.. I also thought that if maybe this isgenetic maybe a university would be interested in them? However! I dont want to keep them alive if they are suffering, but i dont know if they are suffering.

I put a fake plant in their tub and they like it because they can sit comfortably either on top or underneath it.
 
In every tank (of 4) I have at least 1 floater at any given time...they can stay down...but sometimes float up and chill. Also...I'm coming up on 3 months and I think it's probably time to start finding them homes. Lol.
 
These guys canf stay down. They just float on their side or back.. They have a hard time eating and freak out sometimes because of it.



I am going to say this! I know what a floater is. I have an adult that has done it since i got him and have raised enough babies that do it as well. This is 100% not the problem with these two. They arent even capable of releasing the air and going back down. It takes them weeks to do this. I thought it was air in their stomach but i have removed that thought. And if they are inhaling they cant exhale. They have been like this for at least 3weeks now and only have been able to stay at te bottom for a total of less then two days.

I always warn people about floaters.. But i cant even give these two homes because they just sadly float on their side day in and day out.
 
Have you considered contacting the researcher who authored the paper? He might be able to provide some further insight into the condition which you could then relay back to us.

Edward Zalisko
Dept of Biology
Blackburn College
700 College Avenue
Carlinville, IL 62626
217-854-3231 ext 4230
Edward.Zalisko@blackburn.edu

I've included an interview done inside the lab below. I will say that some of the husbandry methods along with the conditions of a a couple adult axolotls shown in the video struck me as suspect. This might be something to question if the topic of donating specimens comes up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLwQpU0Ga80
 
Elise that is a great idea! Thank you. I will do that tonight. I never thought about that.
 
I just sent the email, hopefully I get a response. If I do i will keep you updated!
 
Sarah:

Happy to help out.

First, goodness there is no need to consider sacrificing any of these animals. As we explained in our original 2009 presentation, there is an easy way to get BC Floaters to resume and remain in a normal body posture.

The following internet link should pull up the original 2009 poster pdf file where we answer many of your questions.
file:///Users/edwardzalisko/Downloads/BC_Floater_SICB_2009_Poster-libre.pdf

If somehow that link does not work, select the following link to go to my Academia.edu website, where this and many of my research projects are described. In the next few weeks, I hope to add additional information to the Academia.edu website.
https://blackburn.academia.edu/EdwardZalisko

In short, it looks like the inverted animal (belly up) in the photos (leucistic?) may very well be a floater. Our animals typically have even more inflated lungs, that were often easily seen hyperinflated when looking through the body wall. But some show the trait less dramatically, and some float on their sides.

As we note in the 2009 poster, the most consistent way to help these animals remain in normal posture is to provide a downward current such as that generated by a trickle filter that hangs on the back of a tank. In addition, the BC Floaters should have a place to hang on when they are pushed to the bottom, so that they can stay down.

Research we presented in 2012 reveals that there is some sort of anatomical blockage of the respiratory passageway (likely the very short trachea) that allows them to inhale but not exhale. In the next two years, I expect to have an anatomical study completed documenting the problem. One of the world's experts on amphibian respiratory tracts has agreed to collaborate.

Other researchers working with axolotls have reported seeing something like the BC Floater trait. Your descriptions are most consistent with what we see in our colony. We have hundreds of BC Floaters in a colony supported by our undergraduate students working with me at our small college (Blackburn College).

I plan on presenting a large paper integrating the research completed to date once we can explain the mechanism that causes the floating. Right now, we are carefully studying the properties of the trait and conducting anatomical studies.

Axolotls may float for many reasons that are not the BC Floater phenotype. Most commonly, 1-2% may float as a result of "ingesting" air into the digestive tract. Disease can also result in various floating behaviors.

"Normal" axolotls supplement the oxygen they get from their gills by occasionally gulping air into their mouths. I often see my large adults of normal body phenotype do this. The animal then gradually sinks down, releasing the air from its mouth. So your note about this behavior reflects a common behavior.

By the way, we keep all of our BC Floaters in tanks with downward trickle filter currents and it is very rare to see the floating behavior return. A study we are about to present demonstrates that about half the animals that are floating, and then submerged for a day, will resume the floating behavior if returned to still water in an aquarium. So the downward flow seems to be a good situation to inhibit the resumption of the floating trait.

However, when we are raising a large cohort of axolotls, and assessing the onset and frequency of the phenotype, we raise them in still water in cups of various sizes. It is this still water condition where we will see the phenotype most likely expressed.

In a tank with a downward flow, I suggest a few more adjustments:
1) Position the filter on one side, so that the axolotl can select the most comfortable flow or current. In general, axolotls do not do best in high currents. Their native habitat is typically standing water (lakes in Mexico, that are variously disappearing).
2) Provide shelters within the tank, that may be clay pots (clean, new pots broken in half) or even a clean glass jar on its side, so that the axolotl can further escape currents, and
3) have nothing else but large rocks on the bottom. As you will see advised in many axolotl blogs, gravel on the bottom can be consumed by axolotls, potentially leading to some serious problems. We have worked through this problem in axolotls we had.

I hope the above helps and results in recovery. The BC Floater trait is an inherited trait. Thus, the behavior is a "phenotype" and the genetics the "genotype". Thus, BC Floaters can recover from the phenotype, but still retain the genetic potential to produce offspring with the trait.

Finally, as our animals grow larger, they seem to outgrow the trait. I think the larger body mass helps them tend towards the bottom. But we have had animals float, upside down, in still water, for more than a year! (The gills tend to grow longer, a type of acclimation, to the increased dependency on the gills for gas exchange).

Best,

Ed Zalisko, Ph.D.
Professor of Biology
Blackburn College
ezali@blackburn.edu












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    @Thorninmyside, I Lauren chen
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