Illness/Sickness: PLEASE HELP! Something unique? I don't get it anymore!

[Morrison]

Alright, forget all my previous posts. I'll try to start all over with this one.

Okay. I've posted pictures of my little albino axie starting to 'lose his tailfin'... but people all told me (not only on this forum) that it's nothing to worry about. The edges of the tailfin were actually 'folded' or something.
But it WAS something wrong, it got worse and he developed a big wound on his tail and got bigger and bigger. My axie had his tail raised because it was so painful if his tail touched the bottom of the tank. Now it's still there but I think it's healing a little. He has is tail lowered a bit more...

Another thing I noticed was that my big leucistic male also had a little wound on his tail. And all my light axies had some sort of... white 'patch' on the fin part of their tails. It looked like it's inside but I found out that it's on the outside. I don't know if my wildtypes have the same thing, they're too dark to see anything. My male axie also had the bottom tailfin a bit 'folded' like my albino axie.


But I also noticed (on my light axies) that they had black spots under their feet. I once saw it on my albino axie, right at the place where he has the wound on his tail.
I don't mean the darker toe tips but... the bottom of their feet just have black pieces.
And then... a week or 2 ago my male axie started to develop the same blackness on his snout. Once again people said it was normal and just pigmentation. But now... it is less than it was before and I looked from the side a few days ago and it is actually a thin film of black colored skin. It's still there, but less. Also the dark feet are less but not everything is gone.

I have them all separated. I do daily water changes. I give salt baths and a few days ago I gave them a tea bath.

Another thing I saw them all doing was... scratching their gills.
Why? I don't see anything on their gills, I clean the water every day, especially now their in separated tanks without a filter (because I don't have that much filters). I once had planaria but now I don't have any. I don't see anchorworms or nothing is sticking out of their gills. They kick at their gills with their hind legs like a dog. One day my big wildtype axie was swimming around very fast and scratching and then stopped.... That a couple of times. Now she (or he) isn't doing that... but the little wildtype who seemed okay did the same thing yesterday. There is a little bit of sand on the bottom that accidentally got in but I don't think that's irritating the gills.

And it looks like myy female leucistic axie's gills are less feathery than they used to be.

I once looked at a piece of skin under the microscope and found this:
YouTube - Axolotl skin with parasites?
It reminds me of chilodonella (protozoan) while searching on the internet and I bought a medicine...

Actually... it seems like nothing worked. Not even salt baths, tea baths or keeping them apart.

I think I'm just totally wrong. Is it actually a parasite? I think all those things has to do with the same thing. 5 axies not feeling 100%. They sometimes eat, sometimes they don't... They don't behave THAT different. They're still trying to get my attention and they nibble my fingers as usual. They watch me while I draw something etc.

"Nothing is wrong". Well, there really IS SOMETHING wrong and I don't know what and I can't get out of this alone.
Is there anyone, ANYONE, who can tell me what it is? Or what to do?

Here are also some pictures what I mean:
1. How my albino's tail became in a few weeks. It started with floating for a few days and it became a tail with the 'white patches' (not fungus) and folded edges and eventually a big wound...

2. The tail of my big axie male. The white patches and also a beginning of a wound on his tail as you can see on the picture on the right. He just shook the pieces off!

3. How normal his tail was. Without the white mysterious things and how it became. What are they?

4. A close up. They haven't changed! They're still the same and nothing works. He never had them!

5. The black pieces. Also weird...

6. The black pieces on the snout of my axie. He's a mature axie and I am sure it isn't pigmentation and that is has anything to do with becoming mature. And it has changed, became less and I saw a thin and tiny piece hanging loose.

7. A total view of my axies tail with the wound and the white weird patches. They look cloudy but not fluffy like fungus.

8. Other things I've noticed about my leucistic female (other axie) The gills are less feathery... She also has those white patches on the tail (as well as my albino axie has a little, and my big male... But I can't see anything on my wildtypes), and a little blister kinda piece of skin on the lip of my axie. It started with a little red spot and turned into a little blister, but it looks like it's bursted open... because it looks more like loose skin now.

Am I dealing with a parasite?
Please! Everyone who can help me a bit, please help! Does anyone recognize a thing or everything? Please let me know. I don't know what to do anymore...

*Sigh*

 

[Bellabelloo]

What a nightmare ! And I wish I could help. I had my melanoid with a tail like yours, but it cleared up when I used almond leaves. It would re-occur on and off.. but since I used these it hasn't. Do you have a veterinary hospital anywhere near you, or maybe phone the vets to see if there is anyone who specialises in amphibians. This does look like something that you may not be able to treat your self
Have you ever had feeder fish with your axolotl? I wonder if it could be ich?

 

[Morrison]

I've never had feeder fish before. The problem is that I don't know a vet around who can help. There are herp vets in the Netherlands but then I have to travel a lot with my sick axie and I don't think that would work that well. I don't even have a car and sitting in the train with an axie doesn't look like axies like it. Calling a vet is a good idea but I'm not sure if they will help me like that.

I used almond leaves. Doesn't seem like it worked. Only the kH went down dramatically so I removed them. (I still have almond leaves)

The medicine I used was for treating chilodonella, something else and also ich, but it didn't get better... Or not much...
Poor things.

 

[Skilly]

Morrison,

Have you recently added one of those axolotls to your already established tank with current axies? Or did you get them all at the same time from the same tank in a pet store? It looks like one of the axolotls may have been infected with parasites and you did not quarantine it for 30 days before adding it to your tank?

Have you added or fed any fish to them?

The scratching of the gills is usually caused by little critters that live in the water.. when levels of waste get high the critters multiply like crazy and can get on the gills and be irritating.

Some of those look like they could be axolotl bites... my axie had recently been victim of such bites and his tail has been mangled and resembles some of the pictures you posted. But those are some strange markings and it could very easily be parasitic action on top of bites.

It is very hard to kill parasites with axolotls because the medication usually is extremely harmful to the axies.

I did happen across an anti parasitic amphibian food today that does list Axolotls on it. Jungle Laboratories Medicated Reptile Foods - Supplements & Medications - Reptile - PetSmart

I do not know how well something like this would work, but it may be worth a try especially if salt baths and tea treatments are not working.

Keep them separate and keep their water clean. You should to a good cleaning of their tank and look for tiny worms and critters on the glass. if it is a parasite you may need to do an entire disinfecting of the tank and restart entirely.

 

[Morrison]

Thanks. I've never fed them fish before. Just earthworms and frozen bloodworms and tubifex, also frozen. Everything cleaned.

The albino axie was the last one I've bought and looked great while I bought him. I kept him apart from the others but just for a week. I guess he was somehow infected and infected the others. I have two tanks and the big axie male is in the other tank but I think the 'disease' may have traveled to the other one while using a net or other aquarium 'tools'.

I have cleaned their tanks about 2 weeks ago and cleaned everything in it as well (hiding places, wood, I removed the sand etc). I also had a lot of planaria in there but that's gone now. I don't see anything else in the water that may cause the scratching thing or all the other things. I have them all separated in bare bottom tanks so that I can clean them every day. I clean every piece of poo I see immediately. As well as uneaten pellets or other food.

Thanks for the link. I'm not sure if they will eat them... They don't really like pellets that much anymore.... Which one do you suggest because there are a few but only one for... amphibians. Or are they both/all okay for axies?

 

[Skilly]

I would use the one that is specifically for amphibians that says axolotls on it. If they don't eat pellets you can always stuff one inside a bit of worm and see if that works.

It is too bad all this happened to your poor little axies It is very important to quarantine (even though I know it is hard to wait). The one may have looked healthy and great but that tank he was in could have been infested and another axolotl could have recently been added to the tank you got him from that was also infected.

I hope they heal up and get healthy soon! I'll keep my fingers crossed for them all.

Oh and that is good you cleaned up and get poo out as soon as possible. If it is a parasite though bleach is the only thing that will kill it off. So you may want to clean the tanks they were in and everything with a very diluted bleach solution and make sure to rinse everything very very well.

 

[daremo]

can you contact any herp vet, maybe at university? you can send all the pics and info you have and they may give you a clue, or even contact the Indiana University Axolotl Colony

I wish I could be of more help... sorry

 

[Morrison]

I've just contacted the Indiana University Axolotl Colony and have sent the pictures. I really hope they can tell me something.

 

[Morrison]

I received an e-mail saying that it's possibly Costia (Ichthyobodo necator) that causes the white patches/mucus kinda things on their tails and possibly 2 other bacteria called Aeromonas hydrophila (Bacterial Hemorrhagic Septicemia) and Pseudomonas fluorescens that are also causing red bloody parts and/or ulceration of the skin.

It also has a list of possible treatments like Furan-2 for the bacteria, Melafix for the lesions, and Clout (or anything with malachite green, but low dosage of the medicine).
I ordered it and I really hope it works.

About my albino. He doesn't have his tail raised anymore. It's how an axie tail used to 'hang' behind him
Also another thing he never did was 'hunting' for food. I gave him a few pellets and he never eats things that are on the bottom of the tank and not moving. Now he was searching for it with his nose faced down and pressed against the bottom to smell if there's food around. He ate them all. Another thing, they all kept their worms inside yesterday, even my nasty worm-hating male. Oh, his tail is still a mess, but not so red and it doesn't look like it's getting worse.

Another thing is that my leucistic female starts to develop a little red patch at the edge of her tail fin so I will definitely keep an eye on that. But the red bit on her lip (what became a little blister) is gone now, just a slightly red dot, so not a big hole or something.

I haven't seen them scratching so that's prolly a good thing.
I sometimes think they're doing better and then I feel good and happy for them. But then the next day it could all be a hell again, so I won't dance around my room out of happiness yet...

 

[Opacum]

Be extremely careful with "Clout"! It doesn't have that name for nothing. It was always a 'last resort' medication for Ich when I was in the fish trade. SERIOUSLY potent stuff! It did work nicely if the fish weren't too far gone, but if the fish were really weak, this stuff would deliver the coup de grace. I can't imagine ANY amphibian tolerating this stuff in ANY dosage!

 

[Morrison]

Ha, thanks for the info. I will see if the other two treatments will clear this problem up and instead of Clout I can use something else that's safe for axies.

 

[morphyrichards]

As Carlo says, be careful with malachite green. Axolotls keep dying from it!

 

[daremo]

just follow the instructions they gave you, if they treat axolotls all the time they must know what they're doing

in any case, if you need to use the meds ask for directions on how to use them first

I think what you describe of them eating and such is a good sign

 

[Morrison]

I didn't knew Malachite green was that axie-evil. Or is it Methylene blue that's not so bad for axies? (Those two always confuses me somehow... And if that's okay... is that also to get rid of parasites and stuff?)

 

[daremo]

I used meth blue and didn't do anything to the axie, but it didn't do anything to fungus either...

A friend added a few drops, enough to tint all water blue in a 80 litres tank for two days, the axie didn't even noticed but after those two days she had fungus on her toes again

 

[zoezakella]

Heh Morrison,

Sorry to hear your axie is still sick I am afraid I am no expert and heavily rely on the kind people on here to help me as I have & am still having problems with my own!

Anyway I can tell you methylene blue is safe for axies but at half the dose recommended for fish ( a moderator told me this) and it did slightly help with some problems I had but I treated them in a seperate tub please be warned this stuff is a nightmare! It dyes your hands sink everything lol so be very careful! It also turned my leucistic blueish and he looked like a smurf for a few days! I have been also told to use maracyn which has been good but because its not available in the UK it cost me a lot.

All the best & hope your problems get solved quickly x

 

[Morrison]

Thanks (I already have a permanent black/grey finger (maybe I'm a bit axie and my 'toe tips will turn black too') so a blue one would make my hand get worse )
I also have some tablets to kill the bacteria. That stuff turns the water yellow ...
It's a "Dutch" version of Furan-2 and contains the same 'ingredients'.

 

[Morrison]

Update:
I took another look at a piece of skin under the microscope and I noticed something that reminds me of a fluke. I'm almost sure it's a skin fluke. I searched things about it on the internet and what I read about is are the things I see on my axies.
I also saw an amoebid kinda thing again. I treat it with salt baths, other stuff but still there.

Now I wonder what to do to get rid of those flukes. I've read about 'levamisole' and/or prasiquantel. Is it okay for axies? I can't find anything about that. Does it work well?
If it's okay then I still have some of that stuff over here from the time I had fish. (And it's not expired yet)

 

[Morrison]

OK thanks...
(I know I'm starting to become a real pain in the *** here.... *sigh*)

 

[Bellabelloo]

I think you need a vets input here...