Pygmy Salamander (Desmognathus wrighti)???

calinewt

New member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Sacramento, California
Country
United States
Hi all, while out hiking in SE Tennessee, I stumbled across a few tiny Salamanders---they were under small rocks in a bit of a seepage track. They were at mod an inch in length, and had no external gills. Upon looking at field guides, salamander books, etc, I'm pretty sure they are Pygmy Salamanders. I wanted to see if you all agree. I admit my pics aren't the greatest, but I didn't want to disturb them any more than I did...
So what do you think?
 

Attachments

John

Founder
Staff member
Joined
Feb 6, 2001
Messages
7,971
Reaction score
50
Points
48
Age
42
Location
USA
Country
Ireland
Display Name
John Clare
Too fuzzy to tell. What county and what approx elevation?
 

Jefferson

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
167
Reaction score
12
Points
18
Location
Southwest Missouri
Country
United States
I'm with John that we need to know county and elevation, but my gut says this isn't a Pygmy. There are a few reasons that I'd lean toward this being either a seepage salamander (Desmognathus aneus) or some other newly-transformed dusky salamander.

First, all the Pygmy salamanders I've found in NC, TN, and VA have been at very high elevation (over 4500-5000 feet) in spruce-fir forests, not in water. They are overwhelmingly a woodland species. Secondly, although the pictures are blurry, the salamander looks like it's a dark brown or black, and I don't see a Chevron pattern down its back. Pygmy Sallies are most easily identified by that chevron pattern and are almost always tan, reddish-brown, or light brown above.

Lastly, despite the blurry pictures, we can make out its form, and it looks a little chunkier than the Pygmy Salamanders I've seen. The body form looks more to me like a newly-transformed Spotted Dusky, Shovelnose, Ocoee, or Blackbelly. This is also a reason to doubt Seepage salamander, but I offered that because Pygmy and Seepage are both very small and look somewhat alike (beside the chevrons) but Seepage are found in water, and more widespread in SE TN. Hope this helps!
 

taherman

Caudata.org Donor
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
380
Reaction score
21
Points
18
Location
Whitehouse, OH
Country
United States
They are neither Pygmy, nor Seepage salamanders as both of these lack aquatic larval stages.

Very hard to tell from those photos, but possibly two-lined salamander larvae. The snout looks too long to be a Desmognathus.

Gills can be deceiving without magnification on tiny larvae, as in cold seepages they are so well oxygenated that the gills look nothing like the bushy obvious things you see in captive larvae.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • sde:
    Caudata.org chat? Haven’t seen this in years
    +1
    Unlike
  • Dougie:
    @sde, hi everybody I'm getting a tiger salamander coming from Katy Texas what are the shipping conditions that's okay to have them shipped to me in the state of Vermont it's just starting to get the temperature low above 45 but it may be too hot to ship him any thoughts or ideas on how to work this out
    +1
    Unlike
  • newtmember:
    as long as its not freezing they should ship fine. I usually ship mine in 2 days priorities like axolotl. insulation and some cold pack. Is this morphed or still a larvae?
    +1
    Unlike
  • macmac194:
    Greetings I have a quaratined tiger salamander due to not feeding and feeling lethargic. I saw a slimy green stuff inside the enclosure. Is this vomit? Poop?
    +1
    Unlike
  • Jjrio421:
    Are you still looking to rehome any of your axolotl babies?
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    Guest nagato has joined the room.
  • (Guest) nagato:
    Does anybody know where or who to buy danube crested newts from?
  • Mother of Dragons:
    Anyone in the DMV area looking for juvenile axolotls? I have several morphs available. Experienced owners and pickup only please.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    Guest axmaolotl has joined the room.
  • Ariania Lee-Ann:
    I currently have a 3 year old axolotl, he hasn't been eating for the past couple of weeks and has lost a lot of weight. Hedwig usually eats bloodworms and earthworms just fine but now he won't even stud it. I've done a water change to make his nitrate lower and his water is at a good temperature
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    Guest zippy has joined the room.
  • (Guest) zippy:
    what substrate is he on?
  • Linkisnotzelda:
    Are any of you guys on Quora? I’ve started an axolotl space there and am looking for people interested in helping out!
    +1
    Unlike
  • KarateKid08:
    I am wanting a spotted or tiger salamander and I was wondering how often to feed, what the best feeders would be and how many fed per feeding session.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    KarateKid08 has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    KarateKid08 has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • newtboi:
    Can I has alpine newts pls
    +1
    Unlike
  • ndbug:
    Any ambystoma breeders looking for californiense
    +1
    Unlike
  • axolotl owner2020:
    does anybody have any information on homemade baby axolotl food?
    +1
    Unlike
  • axolotl owner2020:
    I have an earthworm farm, and a tight budget.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Naxuzi:
    Hey guys I was wondering if my axolotl looks fine to you he/she (still don’t know) I’d activate and eating as usual but I did notice veins in the tail area.. let me know what you guys think! Also if anyone could tell if it’s a boy or girl that would be great! (Zolo was eating a worm and pretty sure the worm pooped XD)
    +2
    Unlike
  • Dougie:
    Where can I find a yellow western tiger
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    Eleven11 has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    Eleven11 has joined the room.
    +1
    Unlike
  • Chat Bot:
    Eleven11 has left the room.
    +1
    Unlike
    Chat Bot: Eleven11 has left the room. +1
    Top