Pyrenean S.s. bernadezi???

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kevin

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I recently popped along to my local Reptile supplier to buy some Bloodworm for my Cynops juvies, and look what I came home with.
My first Sallies.
I don't normally buy animals on impulse, but I've been considering getting some for a while, they looked healthy enough and the price was great so what the hell.
Only thing is, they were named as Pyrenean Striped Salamanders, and when I asked the guy in the store to have a look at his delivery sheet for the subspecies, they were listed as bernadezi.
It has been pointed out to me since then that bernadezi isn't actually found in the Pyrenees.
The guy in the shop did say that there was a chance that they weren't bernadezi, although Listed as such.
Anyone got any ideas please?
Anyone brave enough to attempt a sexing from the photo?
I've kept all sorts of Newts and other Amphibians over the years, but apart from Axies I've never kept any other salamanders, and I'm not too good at sexing them, although at the moment,I think they may be all female which is why a positive I.D. as to the subspecies would help, so that I can get males.
Thanks in advance.
Kevin
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they look like fastuosa to me, they are found in the Pyrennes.

on another note! your from Shropshire! so am I! where are you?
 
I'm in Bridgnorth.....The High Town part that doesn't get flooded out every Winter.
Whereabouts are you then?
 
lol, i'm in Ruyton-xi-Towns, halfway between Oswestry and Shrewsbury.
 
Yeah.....I know it
Nice place, although it's gotta be at least 15 years since I was there last.
We're pretty lucky in Shropshire....Plenty of Amphibians except maybe for the Natterjack Toad, but all three species of Newt are present and there is no great shortage of R.temporaria or B. bufo....You've only gotta look at the roadkills in Springtime to suss that one out.
The guy in the dufflecoat who decides what is endangered in this country must have missed Shropshire out....I know of three sites within the Telford and Wrekin district that literally teem with T.cristatus, and many more with lesser populations....Similar with T.helveticus,....Plenty in some of the small pools hidden away in the area.
OOOPS! Sorry folks...This is supposed to be a post concerning Fire Sallies and I'm getting carried away.
I'd welcome anyone's opinion as to what subspecies mine could be.....William is the second person to say that they could be fastuosa....Is this subspecies commonly available should I need more?
 
Kevin, not to mention the introduced population of mesotriton (triturus) alpestris!
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i'm not 100% sure that they are fastuosa, there are populations of bernardezi which are similar to fastuosa.
 
and for sexing, you need to check the cloacae. the males will be swollen and rounded whilst the females will be less swollen/flat and longer
 
Hi Kevin,
I would agree with Will that they are Salamandra s. fastuosa, and probably all males.
It's far easier to sex them with a side or underside view, but by the way that the tail tapers after the cloaca, I think they are males.
 
Thanks Mike and Will.....Well guys, looks like it's thumbs up for fastuosa.
Somebody must have slipped up on the price because I thought fastuosa were supposed to be the expensive ones...
If I get time tomorrow, I'll photograph their genital areas and post the pics.

BTW.Will.....Alpies in Shropshire??
Where???.......No I don't expect you to tell me the exact location, and in any case these days I'd prefer to buy them, because with my spinal problems I'm not safe to go wading in pools, but it'd be nice to know what area they are in all the same.
Cheers
Kevin
 
Got it thanks Will.....I'll reply later.
Meanwhile, I've managed to photograph my Sallies' undercarriages, so if you or Mike would like to give a further opinion, I'd be most grateful.
The photos aren't great because they're wriggly little beggars, and of course my hands were wet so that made it harder to keep 'em still for long enough... But for anyone that's worried that I may have stressed 'em out....They fed 15 minutes later.
Cheers.
Kevin
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Thanks Will.
Erm.......Anyone got a spare female or two that they wanna sell me?
I daresay I could ask the shop to get me a couple, and no doubt they would ask their supplier for females, but if my past experiences are anything to judge by, the suppliers will probably just shove a couple in a packing box and hope for the best....I always feel awkward about asking a shop to get me a particular specimen or sex then having to refuse it because it's the wrong one.
Cheers.
Kevin
 
Yet this is strange since, to my knowledge, LEGAL exports from Spain/France of Salamandra are IMPOSSIBLE (at least for the pet trade...).
 
they'll be captive bred individuals almost certainly.

if they were wild caught, could they possibly be legally exported from Andorra?
 
I have to give the guy a call next Monday....
He seems fairly confident that he can get me a couple of females...Hope so!

Don't know if they are captive bred to be honest, but there's a good chance that they are.
I'll find out.
 
Sorry guys I have to side with Frank on this matter.
I have recently seen in shops both S. s. fastuosa and S. s. bernardezi, which are obviously wild caught adults.
There are individuals that do smuggle european Salamandra into the UK, and sell them to dealers, who then pass them on to the "pet trade".
Once these animals are in this country, due to the way in which the Government interpret european law, they are legal!
I have captive bred male bernardezi and fastuosa, which are surplus to requirements, but would not sell females singly, as "sods law" states that after 3/4 years of growing on Salamandra to adulthood there is always a preponderance of males!
 
Please...never buy animals in pet stores if you can get them as good captive bred specimens (which in the UK are plenty available!!!!). That way your hands stay clean of the blood and diseases that sticks on to the wild caught animals. Sad for these animals, but hopefully pet traders will learn it one day.
 
Well that's told me hasn't it?
But....Like I said.......I don't know whether these are CB or WC, and yes maybe I should've asked, but I'll find out though.
I WOULD buy guaranteed CB if I knew where to get them from.
Now that I only need females, I would prefer to see the animal(s) before I pay for them unless they came from a knowlegeable breeder/dealer such as the guys we have here on Caudata
Unfortunately, I'm a bit stuck, due to the fact that a spinal injury dictates that at the moment I can't travel much further than around 15-20 miles on a good day...This area isn't particularly good for buying herptiles, as outlets are at a minimum.
If my current contact can't help out, then I'll probably just wait until either Pollywog or Dartfrog (Yes...Dartfrog...at least their animals are healthy,well fed and sexed properly)can help me out.
Regards.........Kevin.
 
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