Question about leucistics

[Velaria]

I've owned a few leucistics, but one of them, whom I received approximately six months ago as a baby, has absolutely no iridophores whatsoever. His eyes are completely black without any reflectiveness at all, just like the eyes of a melanoid axie would be. He's 100% white, with black eyes and absolutely no iridophores anywhere on his body or face.

Darkmaverick and I discussed this axie of mine in a previous thread, and I've pretty much come to the conclusion that he's kind of rare. I've been calling him a "melanoid leucistic", and I'm posting this thread because I'd like to ask everyone if they've seen/heard of/owned a leucistic who had no iridophores.

Thanks!

Tina

 

[Tanzaniterose]

Hi,

This thread might help you out (if Rayson hasn't linked to it already) as it explains melanoid leucistics. http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=61248&highlight=melanoid+leucistic

I wouldn't really say it's 'rare', as you can get melanoid in virtually any other colour as it basically means the axolotl has no iridophores, so if the parents have or are leucistic and melanoid, you can end up with around 1-200+ melanoids, leucistics, and melanoid leucs, as well as probably a few varieties of albino thrown in there for fun!

I'm sure others will join me in asking to see photos though!

 

[Velaria]

Thanks!

I should post more pics, now that he/she is older. Sadly, he/she can't be bred because the gills on one side are drastically longer than the gills on the other side. Even so, it is a beautiful animal and I would like to show you guys! Pics coming soon!

So if one parent is leucistic and the other is BLACK melanoid, then would it be possible to have some babies who are black with iridophores?? That would be very cool.

And also, is there a such thing as golden melanoid- you know, gold, but with black eyes and no iridophores? Or what about just gold with black eyes, period?

 

[flan123]

Whats an 'iridophore'?

Thanks, Mike.

 

[melfly]

I thinks its shiney bits?? lol

 

[esoteric]

I'm pretty sure they're reflective or iridescent chromatophores Mike. :rofl:

Thank you wikipedia.

 

[Tanzaniterose]

So if one parent is leucistic and the other is BLACK melanoid, then would it be possible to have some babies who are black with iridophores?? That would be very cool.

And also, is there a such thing as golden melanoid- you know, gold, but with black eyes and no iridophores? Or what about just gold with black eyes, period?

I don't think you can get melanoid or axanthic axolotls with iridophores, I've certainly never seen them; if one did appear, it would certainly count as a rarity! I believe that the cells can only be expressed either as a melanophore, xanthophore or iridophore (I'm sure Rayson or someone can correct me if I'm wrong here). However, you can get dark wild types that look black that have iridophores, this is probably the closest you could get to this.

You can get melanoid albinos - phenotypically though, they look albino, but upon closer inspection have no iridophores("shiny bits" ) on the gills or eyes. They won't have black eyes, although I do recall somebody had a yellowy leucistic on here, as well as another person with an extremely pale, yellowy wild type, both of which looked almost like dark eyed golden albinos.

Mike, there's a good explaination on what iridophores are by Rayson on the link I provided (as well as melanophores and xanthophores).

 

[philbaker76]

You can get melanoid albinos - phenotypically though, they look albino, but upon closer inspection have no iridophores("shiny bits" ) on the gills or eyes. They won't have black eyes, although I do recall somebody had a yellowy leucistic on here, as well as another person with an extremely pale, yellowy wild type, both of which looked almost like dark eyed golden albinos.

Think I've got a Melanoid Albino - going to post some photos soon. I raised two Albinos; from winter spawn 2008. One looked as it had no eyes - the other I could see a yellow reflective iris.

I've kept them both - they were very pale white as hatchlings (unlike bright yellow golden Albino hatchlings) - but now are a peachy/orange colour. The Non-Melanoid one has developed a little more yellow reflective pigment, and looks closer to a Golden Albino than an Albino (excepts it's orange-tinge).

A wholesaler has been selling "Gold" Axolotls - I got a few, but to me they are Leucistic - very, very, very slight yellowish markings on them - if you look carefully in certain light. ...I've kept one (again I'll take a photo). Although I assume the slight yellow will fade.

 

[Kaysie]

A melanoid with iridophores is called a wildtype.

That is, a melanoid by definition lacks iridophores.

 

[Tanzaniterose]

I suppose that can be partially true Kaysie but as the wild type has xanthophores for yellow pigment, you couldn't really class a wild type axie as a "melanoid with iridophores" like you can't call a leucistic "very very pale blue axolotl"!

A phenotypically black axolotl with iridophores would only come about as a dark wild type in my opinion, rather than it being a genetically melanoid or axanthic axolotl with iridophores. The only way I believe this could occur is with chimeraism, and even then it's not a 'real' melanoid or axanthic.

 

[Kaysie]

Melanoids also have xanthophores, they're just highly reduced.

 

[Tanzaniterose]

Yes that’s very true, but let me just expand on your statement so its actually of some use for other readers and doesn’t lead to confusion.

“A melanoid with iridophores is called a wildtype.”

Yes any axolotl that possesses a full number of the three main cells concerning coat pigmentation is a wildtype, so by definition it can’t be a mutation, just a natural variation of the wild phenotype, This natural variation of light and dark wild coat colours are probably controlled by polygenes, and will not be a result of a single gene mutation.

“Melanoids also have xanthophores, they're just highly reduced.”

Again very true, melanoid axolotls can be attributed to an increase in the number of melanophores,
accompanied by a progressive loss of xanthophores and a complete lack of iridophores.
The available literature on the subject remains unclear as to whether older axolotls homozygous for melanoid are completely devoid of xanthophores, or whether remaining xanthophores are simply obscured by the ever-increasing numbers of melanophores.

So basically, the melanophores increase and proliferate with age at the expense of xanthaphores. :happy:

 

[Kaysie]

My statement was meant to be tongue-in-cheek anyway.

Humor fail.