Remarkable Axolotl Coloration

Does everyone have a chimera nowadays? Anyhow, I don't "notice" what you're talking about, sorry. Regarding the sterility, I honestly don't know if this is true but even if it were false, chimera is not a trait, it's a physical developmental problem I believe.
 
Is it just me or is the cloaca bulge on the pale side a lot more pronounced than that on the dark side?
 
@John: I don't actually even know if this is a "chimera" - I only have the phrase from this thread. As I understand it, a chimera (and this axolotl) is the result of two embryos merging at an early stage of embyronic development. A sort of "Siamese twins". As to the question of fertility, it isn't an interest in attempting to breed this trait, but rather to do with the observation that (Yes! Jacq got it!) the pale side actually seems to have developed male while the dark side has either developed female or not developed at all. So now we have the question of fertility: is Dickschaedel then fertile (the pale side looks that way) and if so, as male or female or both? Or maybe we're jumping the gun here and Dickschaedel is male but only developed on one side?

-Eva
 
I don't know about amphibians but human chimeras aren't always sterile.

The study/show I watched on TV said sterility was a matter of if the sexual organs were affected the chimerism. i.e. male body with internal female organs or possibly in the genetic confusion organs are malformed or left out altogether.

But the show featured two women who were deemed chimeras and both had kids.

Sharon
 
Ok so now, slow as I ever am, I decided to look up the word chimera. The definition started out as really encouraging at dictionary.com:

1. (often initial capital letter) a mythological, fire-breathing monster, commonly represented with a lion's head, a goat's body, and a serpent's tail.
2. any similarly grotesque monster having disparate parts, esp. as depicted in decorative art.
3. a horrible or unreal creature of the imagination; a vain or idle fancy: He is far different from the chimera your fears have made of him.
4. Genetics. an organism composed of two or more genetically distinct tissues, as an organism that is partly male and partly female, or an artificially produced individual having tissues of several species.
(source)

Wikipedia provided a bit more info but it still didn't answer my curiosity about whether Dickschaedel will be able to create offspring (and if so, as which parent - or both? curiouser and curiouser). I will, of course, keep y'all updated as time goes on, but most definitely welcome information and opinions.

-Eva
 
That is indeed, very remarkable!
It's so interesting, that is like, right down the middle, how lucky the owner is!

Chelsea
 
Eva always comes up with the most interesting of questions! I couldn't resist by try dredging out old notes and literature to have a read.

Well from my understanding, a chimera is an animal whose body contains two or more groups of cells with distinct sets of genes. At first, each embryo is surrounded by its own protective sac - the chorion - but after the first month of development, these sacs fuse together. Blood vessels connect the developing embryos and embryonic stem cells can travel between them. These swapped stem cells can eventually set up groups of cells in one twin that contain the other's genes. Therefore a chimera is a fusion of two or more embryos as opposed to a twin whereby there is splitting of a single embryo.

Studies have shown that chimerism doesn’t affect fertility. Have a look at this science journal article (although it cites marmosets and cattle as examples, I think the concept is similar).

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=2711j24118186221&size=large
Therefore my hypothesis is that assuming the axolotl only displays chimerism and no other condition, it should still be able to breed, and there is a possibility that chimerism can be carried on due to the possibiltity of chimeric sperm/spermatophore.
Discussion of chimeric sperm(spermatophore) can be found in Fankhauser and Humphrey's (1959) J. Exp. Zool. 142: 379-421.
The main thing to differentiate though is is whether the unique Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde axolotl is more than just a chimera but also a haemaphrodite. Haemphrodites may possess the different internal and external genitalia, and depending on how functionally developed the male or female sex organs are, may still possibility be fertile, although the majority of cases tend to result in sterility/infertility. Even in the rare instance where fertility is not affected, its the predominantly developed set of reproductive organs that will determine if it breeds as male or female. This is much like a spectrum, where different degrees of haemophroditism affects to varying extent. I know cattle can be affected by free-martinism, i can only speculate its similarity to caudates.
Hope this is of some help.
 
If it's a chimera (I suspect it is whether natural or created in the lab), it does not have to be sterile, nor is it guaranteed to be fertile. I suspect that since it appears to have both female and male external features you may run into problems. However, who knows what the ovaries or testis are like internally. Even if it is fertile you could run into gender confusion issues. It has to know how to correctly respond to the opposite sex (could have female parts, but think it's a male, etc.). Good luck trying, though. I doubt that this is a trait that you can select for, unless by some chance there is a trait that creates a favorable environment for embryo fusions.

How is sex determined in axolotls for that matter? Is it the presence of a Y chromosome like humans, X to autosomal chromosome ratio like nematodes. X to Y chromosome ratios like fruit flies. Some crazy temperature thing like alligators? Does anyone know?
 
whatever it is.. it looks awesome ! :D I love it!
 
A chimera that is both male and female, this would be, I imagine, different from a hermaphrodite.
The bilateral division between individual organism identity here should only be a genetic expression of sex, not a developmental one, as the hormones influencing sexual development should be distributed through the entire body and not selectively.
So both sides, even if genetically different sexes, should appear to be developmentally similar, and in like, similarly confused.
Of course specific growth patterns are bound to be more expressly uneven as genetics play a strong role.
This one seems to be growing faster on the white side. The white side may simply be more developed and therefore expressing sexual maturity more. Perhaps the wildtype side just needs more time to catch up and is male too, maybe not.
 
Update:

I have interesting news! First Dickschaedel and now, it seems another person at the German forum has a chimera, too! The two axolotls are not related. I'd never even heard of a chimera in any type of animal and now two axolotls in one year?

The two keepers have been swapping notes in the forum. Both Dickschadel as a larva and the new, as yet unnamed, larva are both noticeably larger than their respective siblings. Both are half wild type and half leucistic.

Below, with permission, a picture of the new larva:
 

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Very interesting stuff. I hope this isn't an indicator of just how inbred axolotls are in Europe (or for that matter, the rest of the world).
 
John said:
Very interesting stuff. I hope this isn't an indicator of just how inbred axolotls are in Europe (or for that matter, the rest of the world).
Click to expand...

Difficult to say. Only recently have I read that some states in Germany are now insisting on breeder documentation for axolotls naming the parents. The documentation is mainly to establish that the animals are captive bred but at least in this way, it may be possible to keep track of what is coming form where.

-Eva
 
wow thats an incredible colouration! even the gills followed suit and had darker pigmentation.. just astounding:eek:

Now I know that the possibility of it being a chimera has been raised, and everyone is inquiring on the sexuality of the axolotl (with regard to sterility), but I was wondering, is it possible that the axolotl has been born asexual?

Just food for thought....
 
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Andrew51 said:
Now I know that the possibility of it being a chimera has been raised, and everyone is inquiring on the sexuality of the axolotl (with regard to sterility), but I was wondering, is it possible that the axolotl has been born asexual?
Click to expand...

I believe that Dickschaedel has begun laying spermatophores, but am waiting for confirmation before I say so definitely.

-Eva
 
Ha ha there goes my theory!!

Well thats a good thing, at least now you know that he is a 'he', and that there is the possibility of breeding him
 
This thread has developed since I last looked at it! Picking up on Pete's question I understand sex in axolotls is chromosomal with the females being the sex with different chromosomes, a similar setup to birds and some other amphibians rather than mammals.

Chimerism is not a reflection of inbreeding. It is probably more common than most people think but overlooked unless there is a colour gene involved as in these beasts.

I guess that if half these animals are haploid the haploid portion will not be fertile. If they resulted from fusion of two diploid eggs then there is a 50/50 chance the animals are hermaphrodites and this will probably impair fertility but may not result in sterility.

I guess these are egg fusion chimeras based on a hunch that larger eggs seem to give larger axolotls, and a double size egg has a head start and both these animals are big and ahead of siblings.

Finally I don't know what it means but the dark side of Dickschaedel looks to me unusual with less pigmentation than normal on the legs. What an interesting beast!
 
That is SOOOO AWESOME!!! :D
 
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