Salt baths or Pimafix?

[binkiesbuns]

I have just discovered a small fluffy white patch of fungus on the top of one of my axies gill stalks He's still eating and doesn't seem to be bothered but I'm thinking I need to get it treated sooner rather than later. I have read the tutorial on giving salt baths but I'm a little worried that moving him from his tank to do them would cause him a lot of stress. Has anyone tried using Pimafix? I've dpne a quick search on the forum and some people think its safe to use at a small dosage put directly in the tank. I also found a post that said it could cause liver problems though.
Has anyone any advice on what the best course of action for him would be? Really don't want this fungus getting any worse.
Thankyou in advance xx

 

[Scorpion]

I don't know what Pimafix is. I think I would just do the salt baths just to be on the safe side. It won't stress your axie out, at least not much. They're hardy little critters. Give them some credit.

 

[michael]

I don't believe Pimafix is recommended for caudates.

 

[binkiesbuns]

Hi,
Thanks for the advice I will get salt tomorrow and start the baths. I have just noticed that his gills have turned forward now and he is flapping them back and forth every so often and scratching at them Is this because of the fungus or could it be something else? I'm getting so worried about him now, I don't want to lose him! D=

 

[Chirple]

I have used Pimafix when salt baths did not work - and it cleared up the fungus. I do not know if it has long-term effects or not.

 

[SludgeMunkey]

The best treatment for fungi, in my opinion is NOT salt baths. Salt baths is for bacterial infections.

In the rare event I end up with a fungi issue, I use either pimafix or melafix at 1/10th the label concentration. When used at label concentrations it causes severe damage to gill filembrials which do not regenerate after such treatment

With fungi, too low of a temperature results in death in my experience as the immune system is slowed too much to counteract the fungi. (personal observation).

Fungal infections are almost always the result of poor husbandry in my experience, and believe me it took me years to get husbandry perfect Sadly I killed a few critters in my ignorance. Therefor I suggest a constant temperature of 22C with rapid oxygenation from an airstone. I suggest water be treated and dosed with 1% meulaca solution and allowed to age 72 hours with aeration prior to water changes every 72 hours.



Specimens should be removed from the original enclosure during treatment. The original enclosure should be drained, torn down, and cleaned with 65C water and household bleach. It should be air dried and then rinsed with a 10/90% solution of distilled vinegar before being rinsed again with clean, treated water. The tank should then be reset to cycle for 45 days whilst the specimen undergoes treatment in the hospital enclosure.

However, if you have access to a herp vet with amphibian experience, a prescription anti-fungal can't hurt.

 

[binkiesbuns]

The best treatment for fungi, in my opinion is NOT salt baths. Salt baths is for bacterial infections.

In the rare event I end up with a fungi issue, I use either pimafix or melafix at 1/10th the label concentration. When used at label concentrations it causes severe damage to gill filembrials which do not regenerate after such treatment

With fungi, too low of a temperature results in death in my experience as the immune system is slowed too much to counteract the fungi. (personal observation).



Thankyou for that info! I thought from other forum posts I read here that low temeratures were BETTER for axolotls. This really has got me wondering now though as it has been reaaly cold over here recently and the temperature in the tank has dropped. I dont know exactly what it is but the thermometer on the tank only starts at 18 degrees and nothings registering so I imagine its way colder than that. Could the drop in temperature have slowed his immune system down which is why he contracted the fungus?
I did not know either that salt was only effective against bacteria so I think I will give the pimafix a try at the dose you stated. Is it ok simply to add it to the tank? There is an air stone in there and an internal filter (no carbon to remove the treatment) so do you think this would be ok?
Thanks again guys, I knew I'd heard somewhere that Pimafix was suitable at low dosages, glad I didn't imagine it!

 

[SludgeMunkey]

The best treatment for fungi, in my opinion is NOT salt baths. Salt baths is for bacterial infections.

In the rare event I end up with a fungi issue, I use either pimafix or melafix at 1/10th the label concentration. When used at label concentrations it causes severe damage to gill filembrials which do not regenerate after such treatment

With fungi, too low of a temperature results in death in my experience as the immune system is slowed too much to counteract the fungi. (personal observation).



Thankyou for that info! I thought from other forum posts I read here that low temeratures were BETTER for axolotls. This really has got me wondering now though as it has been reaaly cold over here recently and the temperature in the tank has dropped. I dont know exactly what it is but the thermometer on the tank only starts at 18 degrees and nothings registering so I imagine its way colder than that. Could the drop in temperature have slowed his immune system down which is why he contracted the fungus?
I did not know either that salt was only effective against bacteria so I think I will give the pimafix a try at the dose you stated. Is it ok simply to add it to the tank? There is an air stone in there and an internal filter (no carbon to remove the treatment) so do you think this would be ok?
Thanks again guys, I knew I'd heard somewhere that Pimafix was suitable at low dosages, glad I didn't imagine it!

Fungi infections are tricky. Too cold and the animals metabolism slows down but the fungi does not. Too warm and the axie's immune system gets over taxed and the fungi goes rampant.

The reason I advise against salt baths for fungal infections is tricky in itself. The truth is what we in the hobby often refer to as fungus or water mold is in fact not actually mold, but a mold like protozoan closely related to slime molds. While called "molds" slime molds in fact are NOT fungi either.

This is why meulaca based treatments work and salt baths do not. The active ingredients in meulaca kill off the hyphae quickly. The salt does not. Additionally,the slow action of the salt causes the Oomycete to go cystic. In other words it switches to sexual reproduction and forms spores which then re-infect later.

The best defense against this sort of infection is to prevent injuries, maintain stable water temperatures and chemistry, and most importantly remove uneaten food and feces as soon as possible. No amount of filtration will prevent it.

Also, if you have multiple tanks, it is VERY important to quarantine nets , turkey basters and the like AND wash your hands with soap and water before working with uninfected tanks.

It is important to note that you should never use these treatments direct in the tank. They can cause cycling crash which will cause even more problems for your pet. It is best to quarantine the animal in a temporary hospital box. While the specimen is recovering, It is highly advisable in this instance to tear down and sterilize the filter system and replace the air stone. If you use a substrate, this should be removed, washed with untreated tap water and heat treated. Then again, if you are going to do all that it is wisest to just tear down the entire enclosure, sanitize, and then get it cycling again.

Experience shows me that this issue is most common in tanks with substrate, which is why my aquatic ambystomids have none. It is much easier to keep the enclosure clean with out it.

 

[binkiesbuns]

Fungi infections are tricky. Too cold and the animals metabolism slows down but the fungi does not. Too warm and the axie's immune system gets over taxed and the fungi goes rampant.

The reason I advise against salt baths for fungal infections is tricky in itself. The truth is what we in the hobby often refer to as fungus or water mold is in fact not actually mold, but a mold like protozoan closely related to slime molds. While called "molds" slime molds in fact are NOT fungi either.

This is why meulaca based treatments work and salt baths do not. The active ingredients in meulaca kill off the hyphae quickly. The salt does not. Additionally,the slow action of the salt causes the Oomycete to go cystic. In other words it switches to sexual reproduction and forms spores which then re-infect later.

The best defense against this sort of infection is to prevent injuries, maintain stable water temperatures and chemistry, and most importantly remove uneaten food and feces as soon as possible. No amount of filtration will prevent it.

Also, if you have multiple tanks, it is VERY important to quarantine nets , turkey basters and the like AND wash your hands with soap and water before working with uninfected tanks.

It is important to note that you should never use these treatments direct in the tank. They can cause cycling crash which will cause even more problems for your pet. It is best to quarantine the animal in a temporary hospital box. While the specimen is recovering, It is highly advisable in this instance to tear down and sterilize the filter system and replace the air stone. If you use a substrate, this should be removed, washed with untreated tap water and heat treated. Then again, if you are going to do all that it is wisest to just tear down the entire enclosure, sanitize, and then get it cycling again.

Experience shows me that this issue is most common in tanks with substrate, which is why my aquatic ambystomids have none. It is much easier to keep the enclosure clean with out it.

Thankyou so much for all that info! I don't have substrate bar a few large pebbles which I move around daily for a turkey basting and I do a 30% water change every week.On doing my water change lastnight however I noticed a small blob of fungus growing in between the plants in an ornamental fern which sits in the middle of the tank. I think this may have been a pellet which I'd dropped in and overlooked (frig knows when) but despite switching to a feeding jar I guess it just goes to show that you're completely right on your "less is more" approach.
Anyway I got the Pimafix today and started treatment on my wee guy at a 10% dose. It says on the label to continue dosing daily over 7 days before doing a water change, is this the instance too for axys? Should I continue adding 1ml (as a tenth works out) every day for the next week?
Many thanks for all your help, just want my wee tike to be well again

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Thankyou so much for all that info! I don't have substrate bar a few large pebbles which I move around daily for a turkey basting and I do a 30% water change every week.On doing my water change lastnight however I noticed a small blob of fungus growing in between the plants in an ornamental fern which sits in the middle of the tank. I think this may have been a pellet which I'd dropped in and overlooked (frig knows when) but despite switching to a feeding jar I guess it just goes to show that you're completely right on your "less is more" approach.
Anyway I got the Pimafix today and started treatment on my wee guy at a 10% dose. It says on the label to continue dosing daily over 7 days before doing a water change, is this the instance too for axys? Should I continue adding 1ml (as a tenth works out) every day for the next week?
Many thanks for all your help, just want my wee tike to be well again

What I would do in you circumstance is use your calculated dose once and then observe for three days. If no visible change is noted dose again. It is better to ease into daily dosing in the hospital tank as too much to fast could trigger sporification.

Be aware that meulaca products ARE irritating to axolotl's skin and gills. You will see extra slime on the skin and possibly the loss of a few fillembrials. This is kind of like chemotherapy, little doses spaced out over time rather than a huge quick fix which can be just as bad for the subject.

If within a week the condition does not improve a trip to the vet is definitely in order.

I wish you luck, these sort of infections are a real pain to deal with. I freely admit my success barely outnumber my failures over the years.

 

[binkiesbuns]

What I would do in you circumstance is use your calculated dose once and then observe for three days. If no visible change is noted dose again. It is better to ease into daily dosing in the hospital tank as too much to fast could trigger sporification.

Be aware that meulaca products ARE irritating to axolotl's skin and gills. You will see extra slime on the skin and possibly the loss of a few fillembrials. This is kind of like chemotherapy, little doses spaced out over time rather than a huge quick fix which can be just as bad for the subject.

If within a week the condition does not improve a trip to the vet is definitely in order.

I wish you luck, these sort of infections are a real pain to deal with. I freely admit my success barely outnumber my failures over the years.

Thanks so much for all the great advice! Until 3 months ago I hadn't even heard of an axolotl, let alone have a clue to look after them! Despite scouring this site everyday ever since there is still so much to learn and take in. Axies are extremely rare here in Northern Ireland and I've only found one place that has ever stocked them (where I got mine) and even then he hasn't been able to source any since, this makes his recovery all the more important to me - nevermind the fact that I love him to pieces lol! =p
One last quick question about the treatment if you don't mind, In the hospital tank I have a filter (wrongly I'm now guessing but thot it would distribute the pimafix more evenly throughout the tank), airstone and hide set up. Would this affect the dosage rate do you think or should I still wait 3 days before adding more? I normally do a water change every 7 days too so I'm wondering whether or not I should if I'm still in the process of treating.
Thanks again for everything

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Thanks so much for all the great advice! Until 3 months ago I hadn't even heard of an axolotl, let alone have a clue to look after them! Despite scouring this site everyday ever since there is still so much to learn and take in. Axies are extremely rare here in Northern Ireland and I've only found one place that has ever stocked them (where I got mine) and even then he hasn't been able to source any since, this makes his recovery all the more important to me - nevermind the fact that I love him to pieces lol! =p
One last quick question about the treatment if you don't mind, In the hospital tank I have a filter (wrongly I'm now guessing but thot it would distribute the pimafix more evenly throughout the tank), airstone and hide set up. Would this affect the dosage rate do you think or should I still wait 3 days before adding more? I normally do a water change every 7 days too so I'm wondering whether or not I should if I'm still in the process of treating.
Thanks again for everything

Pull the filter from the hospital tank- not only will it screw up the medication regiment, the current will stress the axolotl and the oomycetes my colonize it too. Keep the air stone. Minimize current from it by placing it in a baffle of some sort(I use a small cage made of plastic needle point grid or a plastic cup with the bottom cut out and trimmed into "legs" like on a pub stool). Do a complete water change before each new dose.

Remember axolotls like it cool, still and dark!


Don't forget to get your normal enclosure cleaned and cycled while your axolotl is healing up!

 

[binkiesbuns]

Pull the filter from the hospital tank- not only will it screw up the medication regiment, the current will stress the axolotl and the oomycetes my colonize it too. Keep the air stone. Minimize current from it by placing it in a baffle of some sort(I use a small cage made of plastic needle point grid or a plastic cup with the bottom cut out and trimmed into "legs" like on a pub stool). Do a complete water change before each new dose.

Remember axolotls like it cool, still and dark!


Don't forget to get your normal enclosure cleaned and cycled while your axolotl is healing up!

Thanks for the advice, I've took out the filter as advised. I've done the bleaching and rinsing of his old tank. How would you suggest I sterislise his resin hide, plastic plants and filter? I've ditched the silk plants and large pebbles that were in it. Thanks!

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Sorry for the delay, I got swamped a bit while my parents were in town.


I would scrub everything down with hot tap water and a stiff bristled brush. I would then scrub everything down with 25/75 mix of water and household laundry bleach. I would then rinse with distilled vinegar, followed by hot water. I would then allow the items to air dry in sunlight if possible.

 

[AlotlLov]

Tubbed with airstone, iAL, and cool treated water (prime) daily.