Seachem Flourish

[tammyaxie]

I just bought 3 new plants, a moss ball and planted driftwood for my axies 20 gallon Long tank. I was told that the plants needed ferts so I bought Flourish (I use prime and wanted to stay within the brand). I added 2 drops ( literally to the water. Will this harm my axies? Will this amount help the plants any? I have read conflicting opinions on Flourish and whether or not it is safe for axies. I'd like for experienced members to use this thread to come to a consensus as to whether or not it is safe. How much is safe/effective and what are the precautions. FYI my axies are not in the tank with the Flourish right now. I tool them out when redecorating and have not put them back yet.

 

[auntiejude]

There are several different products available under the Flourish brand - most of them are not safe for axies. They contain high concentrations of metal salts (copper, iron magnesium) or other compounds that could upset axies - phosphates, nitrates etc.

I would recommend either taking your plants out and rotating them between axie tanks and nutrient baths, or removing your axies while using fertilisers then doing a large water change before returning your axies.

 

[tammyaxie]

Are these high concentrations?

 

[tammyaxie]

Are there any experts who would like to shed more light?

 

[auntiejude]

Are there any experts who would like to shed more light?

I just gave you a reasoned answer - not safe because of the high concentrations of dissolved nutrients!

 

[michael]

Are there any experts who would like to shed more light?

You did get a good answer from an expert.

 

[tammyaxie]

Can someone give me facts and not opinions please. I hear the terms "high concentrations" and "unsafe". Since my small mind can't comprehend .0001% being high concentrations, can someone explain this a little further and elaborate on what percentages of anything is safe? I can't imagine that a captive bred creature has not developed any defense mechanisms against small amounts of minerals and substances. I posted pictures on the thread of the chemistry of the product in order for someone to give me a good enough argument against using "this" product, or proponents for the use of it. The info I have gotten has not swayed me in any direction. Hence my persistence.

 

[michael]

Try it and report back to us.

 

[LSuzuki]

You can't tell anything just looking at the size of the number. 0.0001% is 1 part per million. 1 ppm is "high" for ammonia, as in that much ammonia will start to harm an axolotl. 1 ppm is not high for, say, sodium chloride (salt), in that it would take a much higher concentration of salt to harm your axolotl.

Perhaps someone somewhere has done careful studies to figure out at what concentration various substances in fertilizers have a negative effect on axolotls, but there are a lot of substances listed there. The impact of each of those substances will vary not only based on the genetics of the axolotl, but also, in some cases, based on the water chemistry (e.g., ammonia is more toxic in high-pH water.)

Given the complexity of the subject, the best answer you are likely to get is that such products are potentially unsafe due to what they contain, which are substances known to have a negative impact on axolotls (or amphibians in general.) Those products are usually fish-safe (for most fish) but are not tested on amphibians.

Note: axolotls produce a lot of plant fertilizer in the form of ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate. So your plants may be fine without any supplements at all.

 

[tammyaxie]

Try it and report back to us.

Get off the thread meanie

 

[tammyaxie]

You can't tell anything just looking at the size of the number. 0.0001% is 1 part per million. 1 ppm is "high" for ammonia, as in that much ammonia will start to harm an axolotl. 1 ppm is not high for, say, sodium chloride (salt), in that it would take a much higher concentration of salt to harm your axolotl.

Perhaps someone somewhere has done careful studies to figure out at what concentration various substances in fertilizers have a negative effect on axolotls, but there are a lot of substances listed there. The impact of each of those substances will vary not only based on the genetics of the axolotl, but also, in some cases, based on the water chemistry (e.g., ammonia is more toxic in high-pH water.)

Given the complexity of the subject, the best answer you are likely to get is that such products are potentially unsafe due to what they contain, which are substances known to have a negative impact on axolotls (or amphibians in general.) Those products are usually fish-safe (for most fish) but are not tested on amphibians.

Note: axolotls produce a lot of plant fertilizer in the form of ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate. So your plants may be fine without any supplements at all.

Thanks for the information. I didn't know poop would be sufficient. That's great to know. I wish there was a brand of aquarium products solely for axolotls. I should patent that.... ($$$). Anywho, I put on drop in my 20 gallon tank. I will return it next week if I haven't found more info.

 

[michael]

Get off the thread meanie

You keep talking about making beginner mistakes in a number of threads.

Experienced breeders take their valuable time to offer good advice.

You don't like getting advice from these experts.

I'm not sure how that makes me a meanie.

I thought I was contributing to the forum and helping you avoid making mistakes.

 

[LSuzuki]

Do not let poop build up in the tank just because it is food for plants. Too much nitrate is bad for axolotls. The plants will help keep the nitrates down, but you still need to test for them and do enough water changes to keep it low enough for the axolotls.

Be very careful about deviating from expert advice when you are just beginning. Expert advice is not 100% true for every single situation, but will result in a health environment for your axolotl. Applying "logic" that violates the expert advice will often harm your axolotl because when you are beginning, there are non-intuitive facts that you just haven't learned yet.

Also, it is pretty easy for a relative newcomer like me to get a few green rep blocks, but it takes years of dedicated (and unpaid) contributions to this forum to get as many green blocks Michael and AuntieJude have. If they seem brusque at times, it is because they have answered the same questions over and over (search the threads on your questions and you will see.) The fact that they haven't left due to burn-out (as many others over the years have) is a testament to their dedication.

 

[tammyaxie]

You keep talking about making beginner mistakes in a number of threads.

Experienced breeders take their valuable time to offer good advice.

You don't like getting advice from these experts.

I'm not sure how that makes me a meanie.

I thought I was contributing to the forum and helping you avoid making mistakes.

Telling me to go ahead and do something you think may harm my axies is expert advice? I am not the type of person to make a decision based on reasons I don't have a full understanding of. I hope my prying for information does not offend anyone here. You want sheep? Find a herd somewhere near you. I am grateful for those who take care in recognizing when an owner wants to be knowledgeable and not just go with what the majority says. I am a beginner but I did a lot of research before investing in my pets. Do not undermine my ability to care for them as well as anyone else could, because I am a "beginner". Now if you have more info on seachem products or flourish, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, u can keep scrolling. No need to be rude.

 

[tammyaxie]

I definitely wouldn't let the poop build up. Thanks everyone for the info. I hope my appetite for pro/con argument hasn't been taken for recklessness. I have only put exactly 2 drops of this product in my tank but wanted to understand more about why it was ill advised to use it. I guess the consensus came about because it is difficult to measure what amounts of these substances is safe vs unsafe for axies. Since there is a presence of substances know to harm axies it should be avoided all together. Thanks everyone. I hope this thread helps someone with the same queries.

 

[BabySinclair]

Tammy, you've seen the plants in my tanks right? That is all home grown Lotl turds. I literally don't add anything else to my tank. In my fish tanks, I Have to use flourish. The fish food doesn't have enough nutrients (once processed and then pooped) to feed the plants. But in the Lotle tanks, I use nothing. Between the earthworms I feed (and they LOVE those fat juicy night crawlers. Un blanched I might add lol
What I'm saying, give it two months. Some may disagree, but try keeping your nitrates around 10-20 and do smaller, 2x a week water changes. That way you are still leaving nutrients behind for the plantsAlso keep in mind, your guys are still small, they may not be producing enough waste yet to deep your plants. But while doing this, you really need to keep on the water parameter checks.

But if your plants do start to yellow. Do the above suggested nutrient soak with tank water and nutes. That way you don't shock the plant and it releases all of its absorbs nutrients

Btw, Lotl poop is great for those plants that like high iron. They tend to be on the red side of color in plants. Also, keep in mind that some aquatic plants require they get most their nutes from the substrate. Those plants will be very hard to keep with Lotls since we have to use sand or bare bottom.
I'm still currently trying to figure that one out

 

[michael]

I am a "beginner".. No need to be rude.

Whaaat?

 

[tammyaxie]

Thanks BabySinclair. I will see how they do for the next couple of months. I planted them in a spot that accumulates waste and debree in the tank. That way they get most of what ever particles of poop I didn't get out with the turkey baster. I see one tiny sprout already coming up which is surprising.

I do 50% water changes every 4 days and test water before each change. I will try and find some low maintenance plants near me if they don't do well. I work with a vet who studied exotics and she told me to ground up a little dry dog food for my worm farm for added nutrients for my axies. I wonder if those nutrients help any.... hmm

 

[BabySinclair]

Thanks BabySinclair. I will see how they do for the next couple of months. I planted them in a spot that accumulates waste and debree in the tank. That way they get most of what ever particles of poop I didn't get out with the turkey baster. I see one tiny sprout already coming up which is surprising.

I do 50% water changes every 4 days and test water before each change. I will try and find some low maintenance plants near me if they don't do well. I work with a vet who studied exotics and she told me to ground up a little dry dog food for my worm farm for added nutrients for my axies. I wonder if those nutrients help any.... hmm

Is there a reason you do so many water changes? And when you add new plants, they tend to release a lot of the absorbs nutrients they are storing until they fully acclimate to the water. This can take over a week. But under good conditions, about a week. When you have plants, you need "some nitrates*. That's why I said keep'm around 10-20 (10 is ideal) but again, that means smaller, more frequent water changes and close monitoring of the parameters. but honestly, I think your water changes are to big. Very hard on the cycle, And your flushing all the plant nutrients as well. Btw, pm me if you want a small container of dwarf water lettuce and azzola. If your having a problem with too high of nitrates and that's the reason for so many water changes. These plants will help . And a lot faster than the under water plants

Tori

 

[tammyaxie]

@BabyDinclaire my water levels are always 0 since my tank got cycled. I have a liquid test kit. I change the water whenever I can smell it. I always only had artificial plants so I didn't think of preserving nutrients. I will cut back and to be honest I don't think I do all of 50% every time. I got into the habit of frequent water changes while cycling. I will cut back if it is necessary. Thanks for the offer. How hard are they to maintain?