She has laid eggs - Mudpuppy breeding

The entry in 'Les Urodeles du Monde', pertaining to the eggs, just says says the following:
...'more than 60 eggs in total. Incubation lasted more than 2 months'. Jean had eggs laid at 14C, so I assume incubation took 2 months at around that temperature.
 
OK, I have just read the paper. It is very short and available free via the Societe Herpetologique de France; http://lashf.fr/anciens-bulletin.php

The section on the eggs says that the first time he reproduced this species, the female ate a large number of them. When he removed a group of eggs and kept them in a separate tank with a paump moving water over them, they were overcome by fungus. He doesn't know if this group was fertile, though, so it's not clear whether the mother plays a role in protecting them against pathogens.

The second time, the female was a better mother and guarded the eggs very well and very aggressively.

Eggs were laid on the 27th May and the first larva was discovered on the 6th August. The larvae take two weeks (or just less) to use up their yolk sack (at aroun 18C water temperature). They are very slow growing; 22mm at hatching and less than 60mm 13 months later (with winter cooling down to 12C)! Its not clear if he left them with the adults...I suspect not, given how voracious this species is.

I hope that helps, sorry tis a summary rather than direct translation, but those are all the important details.
 
froggy said:
OK, I have just read the paper. It is very short and available free via the Societe Herpetologique de France; SHF :: Anciens numéros du Bulletin

The section on the eggs says that the first time he reproduced this species, the female ate a large number of them. When he removed a group of eggs and kept them in a separate tank with a paump moving water over them, they were overcome by fungus. He doesn't know if this group was fertile, though, so it's not clear whether the mother plays a role in protecting them against pathogens.

The second time, the female was a better mother and guarded the eggs very well and very aggressively.

Eggs were laid on the 27th May and the first larva was discovered on the 6th August. The larvae take two weeks (or just less) to use up their yolk sack (at aroun 18C water temperature). They are very slow growing; 22mm at hatching and less than 60mm 13 months later (with winter cooling down to 12C)! Its not clear if he left them with the adults...I suspect not, given how voracious this species is.

I hope that helps, sorry tis a summary rather than direct translation, but those are all the important details.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that Chris great stuff, I have been in contact with him and he said that he only managed to rear one larvae.

I have been checking on her twice a day and she really is caring for the eggs, I am making sure that all of the others and her are well fed so they don’t try and raid the nest. One did try the over day but got a bite and that was that, so hopefully she can keep them at bay. I may remove the male but the other two females are digging lots as well and show signs that they may also lay so don’t want to take them out.


I will be monitoring them closely over the next few months.


Kind Regards

Jay
 
Hello all,

She laid another 10 or more eggs today, that makes it around 100. About five of the eggs have dropped off the stone but all the others look good. How long do people think it will take before I can tell if they are fertile or not?

Kind regards
Jay
 
Hello All,

Just thought I would keep everyone in the loop about how they are doing 9 days on from being laid.

The mother is doing a very good job at caring for the eggs and there have been no signs of her eating them, touch wood. She has kicked a few out of the nest about 9 I have seen but there is still well over 60.

Potentially another 40 odd days to go.

My fingers are still crossed.

Kind regards
Jay
 
Hello All,

The eggs seem to be doing well a few have gone cloudy and some kicked out of the nest. All the others seem to be doing well and the female is still caring for the eggs which is a good sign.

The other two females have not laid yet but are staying in their nest with just their heads appearing for food. There appetite has increased which is what happened to the one that did lay, but still haven’t seen them upside-down.

Fingers are still crossed.

Kind Regards

Jay
 
Make sure she stay fed. She's using more energy than usual with tail fanning and standing guard. Necturus sp have been documented to eat their own eggs.

Good luck!
 
Hello all,

So at least 13 on the underside of the rock look infertile, so we still have I think around 40 but it is hard to tell. Also some of the clear ones seem to be changing shape, which is a good sign as they look like they are developing.

Even better news the female with the second best nest, I spotted upside-down in her nest for the first time so looks like she is about to lay.

Fingers crossed.

Kind Regards
Jay
 
Hello all,

Just to update you on the eggs, they are developing nicely and the mother is doing well. However there were a lot that were infertile.

On another note the 2nd female laid over the weekend, so I now have two successful nests with eggs. Hopefully the last female will also lay but she has the smallest nest.

Time will tell but it's looking positive that at least a few youngsters will come from the first clutch and hopefully some from the latest clutch will develop too.

Kind regards
Jay
 
Thats really good news, nice to see your hard work is paying off. Do you think that the infertile eggs were due to being part of a first batch ?
 
xxianxx said:
Thats really good news, nice to see your hard work is paying off. Do you think that the infertile eggs were due to being part of a first batch ?
Click to expand...

Hi Ian,

Hope you are well?

Yes I think that might have something to do with it, but I think the mother has a large role in keeping the eggs well oxygenated from my observations. Also her being a first time mother maybe the cause of her potentially neglecting some of the eggs.

We will see what happens to the 2nd females eggs.

Kind regards
Jay
 
Has anybody trialed increasing oxygen levels in the water to help with egg survival ?
 
The oxygen levels in the tank are high, as I have seven pumps in there as well as the inflo from the filter. I think maybe the movement of the eggs from the mother helps keep them well oxygenated. However the ones that are not looking good may have had enough oxygen but were infertile eggs.

Cheers
Jay
 
Congratulations. That's got to be a very exciting thing to witness. I pray that all goes well with the eggs hatching for you. :angel:
 
:happy: My congratulations Jay!

I hope the eggs will develop well and so You will get mudpuppy babies!
I would like to ask You and also anyone on the forum: I finally got a mudpuppy which was being sold in Germany. It looks healthy so far and it is about 12 inches long. If i compare it with other mudpuppy pictures and videos, it looks rather thin with the head clearly broader than the body. It has not eaten anything since it arrived (4 days ago) after a rather stressful trip. I have not tried live food yet. Just fish food and fresh fish pieces. The water here (i live very closed to Winchester, Hampshire) is very "hard", high amounts of calcium and magnesium carbonates. Could this be affecting its appetite? Very soon i will get a tetra external filter 1200 (which looks enough for a tank of 240 liters), so the problem with water hardness should be solved then. I look forward for any help regarding the feeding problem and/ or any other useful advice.
Thank You very much!

Carvalho
 
I saw your article in this month's PRK magazine Jay, congratulations!

Is there any progress on the eggs?
 
Come on Jay, we all want to see an update! :eek::p
 
Hello,

Sorry for not posting an update for ages.

The eggs were developing nicely over 20 and no signs of the female eating them as I was keeping all of the adults well fed.

During this time, I had a long awaited field trip to China to survey Chinese Giant salamanders. During my time away the eggs were eaten I think because they were not fed enough, I'm gutted. There had obviously been some scraping as there was some skin damage.

But hey there is always next year, everything has been documented so I will repeat it next year so fingers crossed for then.

Hopefully my next trip to china will not clash with them laying again.

Kind regards
Jay
 
That sucks Jay, sorry to see your hard work has come to nothing this year, look forward to seeing your results next year. Hope you found some really crappy job for the guys who didn't feed them properly.
 
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