Sick Axie & nitrate probs

[onyx]

Please be patient with me as I am new to this forum and I only have a basic knowledge of Axolotyls.
I had 2 Axolotyls (1 x black - Onyx & 1 x yellow - Lilly) They were housed in a 2ft tank which has an undergravel filter and airstone. I try to keep the water at pH=7, GH=8 Temp 16 - 19C. (I only had test kits for pH & GH - not nitrates) 30% water change is performed weekly using a gravel cleaner and treatment added (Aqua +) for chlorine control. Diet was wholefish (looks similar to white bait)

Early in May 07 Lilly went off her food and became lethargic. The local aquarium performed a water test and found the nitrates were very high. We were advised to do 30% water change (using a gravel cleaner) every 2nd day to bring the levels down. It took about 2 weeks for Nitrate levels to go down but it was too late for Lilly and she died. (16 May 07)
Death was slow over a few days with what appeared to be blood coming from the end of her tail and belly. Her eyes turned white and were protruding from her head but she was still breathing as she would gulp if we removed her from the water and her gills were shrinking. (she did not float to the surface and we had removed her from the tank) I am not sure whether the nitrate level was the cause of death.

During this time Onyx was going ok and was feeding the best he ever had. The day after Lilly was taken from the tank and died Onyx showed no interest in eating. We introduced another axolotyl - a young yellow one (Roxy) and she has taken to the tank very well. Onyx ate about 3 days later but it took some effort. On Tuesday morning we found him floating on the top of the water. I thought he was dead and lightly touched him. Onyx got a fright and swam around in a frenzy hitting plants, but eventually settled to the top again. I noticed he had a round red fleshy lump protruding from his vent. He has been separated from Roxy in shallow water so he does'nt float. Onyx in refusing to eat and has'nt eaten in 4 days. He stays still unless touched, then he swims around in a frenzy. At this point in time it looks like he may die as well unless there is a miracle cure out there. The aquarium advised to try a salt bath to see if this would flush anything that maybe stuck inside but this hasn't made much difference.

I have noticed that my nitrate levels have gone high again (40ml) and I don't know why. I live in Victoria Australia and we are experiencing a bad drought. I am not sure if something is being added to the tap water that maybe causing the nitrates to increase rapidly (the nitrate measured from the tap water was 0) There is no rotting matter that I can see and the water is visibly clear when the water is changed. I don't know where to go from here - any help appreciated.

Thanks

 

[kapo]

Nitrates at 40ml isn't high. In an established tank/aquarium 20-40ml/ppm is normal, it's when it starts to get above 60-80+ that you may have a problem

Don't do salt baths. Salt baths will only stress it at this stage, until you can work out what is wrong.

Most importantly, what are your ammonia and nitrIte levels, these may be the ones causing a problem, and could be buried beneath your substrate. Gravel is not good, despite aquarium/petshop peoples advice, to have in an axie tank. They will always automatically ingest when searching for food and it can cause blockages and/or prolapse leading to possible death. Undergravel filters are also not good, a lot of waste falls beneath the plate adding to water quality issues (ammonia and/or nitrIte buildup). Consider removing gravel and filter completely for the sake of your axies.

When introducing any new companion quarantine of 30 days is required. As he is already separate from tank it's not a problem. If he improves don't put him back in the same tank as Roxy, till the 30 day period is up.

Do you treat your tapwater with a water conditioner?

You should, if possible, fridge Onyx as long as it's above 4C, as this will help him to calm down, will slow his metabolism down to give it a chance to heal. The protruding lump doesn't sound good. You will need to do complete daily waterchanges on his container. Container needs to have a lid, don't fill it completely, just enough to cover Onyx. Once lid is on wrap with teatowel (to stop temperature fluctuations and light flashing from normal fridge useage). Also place a bottle of dechlorinated water in the fridge as the daily waterchanges have to be same temperature so as to not cause any stress to your axie.

 

[onyx]

Thanks for the followup Kapo. Unfortunately I don't have kits to test for Ammonia or Nitrite but I will purchase today. I am limited with what I can do with the tank (stones, filter, etc) as the tank and equipment was part of a school project. Will frequent water changes help with the Ammonia & Nitrite?
I do treat the water with a product called Aqua+ which is supposed to remove chlorine & chloramine and I have been using Melafix to help with stress. I hand feed Onyx & Roxy so hopefully they won't ingest any gravel.

I will perform the water changes as advised but I was wondering whether I need to remove the undergravel filter and gravel for cleaning / inspection? If I remove the undergravel filter permanently will I need to purchase a filter unit to clean the water?

I don't think the fridge is an option as I am pretty sure that it is under 4C but I have a room that gets quite cool (not heated) and quiet and we have been keeping Onyx in there. As of today he is still alive but not moving much and is refusing to eat. Is there a liquid food that can be added to the water to sustain him?

 

[Jennewt]

It's wishful thinking to hope they won't ingest gravel. If it's there, they'll eat it. The bulging cloaca could be caused by several possible problems, but impaction due to gravel is one possibility.

The problem with an UG filter is that dirt collects under it. This will certainly contribute to nitrate accumulation, and needs to be cleaned out occasionally. If you ditch the UG filter, yes, you'll need some other kind of filter.

There is no liquid food that the axie can absorb. It would only foul the water. If it's any consolation, they can go for weeks without eating, so starvation is the least of his problems. I hope he gets better!

 

[onyx]

With the dechlorinated water, should I add Melafix?

 

[kapo]

Keep the water cool (or coolest room) and change the water on his container daily, especially if he's in a small container.

Don't use the melafix at this stage, though I know some people do use it (at half the doseage). You have to be careful with fish medicines as a lot of them can be toxic to an axie.


If you can't afford the freshwater test kits for ammonia or nitrite (they've recently gone up in price here to $19-$26) then you can take a sample of water to your petshop to test. If ammonia/nitrite levels in the tank are above 0, then yes frequent partial waterchanges (20-30%) will bring any toxins down.

Good luck, I hope he improves

 

[onyx]

An update re Onyx. . . .

I have kept Onyx in the fridge as advised and have been performing daily water changes on his container. He is still alive but I have noticed what appears to be waste on the bottom of his container so it looks like he maybe passing something but he still has a bulge at his vent. He also is still refusing to feed - could this be due to being kept 'cool' in the fridge????

How long can an axie be kept in the fridge and what would be the best thing to try and feed him on to start with?

I have also done some mods to the tank that Roxy is in. I now have large pebbles instead of stones and have ditched the UG filter and replaced with new water filter. pH, GH, Nitrate & Nitrite are ok. Ammonia is between 0 and 0.25 so I will need to continue with partial water changes.

When I performed the tank changes I kept the original 60% of the original water but I am having having cloudiness issues. Could this be due to the new filter being 'run in'?
Roxy appears happy with the new setup and is feeding normally so this doesn't appear to be affecting her.

 

[Kaysie]

Most won't feed while in the fridge. They can be kept in there for up to a few weeks, but shouldn't be kept longer than needed. I think the best thing to start feeding with are small meals of earthworm chunks.

Large pebbles are better than gravel, but are still a pain to clean. But you were right in ditching the UG filter. They're nothing but bad news. Do you have a gravel siphon? You'll need this to clean between the substrate. If you can, it's best to switch to either sand, or have a bare-bottom substrate. You'll be amazed at how much gravel you'll still find that the axolotls have poo'ed out.

The cloudiness is probably due to a mini-cycle, where the bacteria that were 'eating' the ammonia and nitrites have died. Keep on with frequent water testing and changes. The cloudiness will diminish.