Question: Slime coat water conditioner.

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SabreRose

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I saw this posted on the shopping list board:
"Water Conditioner- Avoid "slime coat" products. Buy products that remove chlorine, chloramine, and metals. Sodium thiosulfate based solutions are best."

I just wish to know why slime coat products should be avoided as I have been using them for my axolotl as the bottle said that it was for amphibians. I did ask on the board that this was posted on, but no one replied so I though I best ask on my own board and hope someone answers me.

Thanks for reading this, and I hope someone can help me. =)
 
Guilty.


I make that statement based on personal experiences with these products.

I started out as a "serious" aquarium hobbyist with fish which led to amphibians. I swore by the stuff with fish, but as I got out of fish and into caudates I found that those products did more harm than good in my opinion.

I noted that in axolotls (which like many others around here is what I started out with all those years ago) that fillembrial loss (the feathers on external gills) happens far too often for my liking when those products are used. My theory is the excess sodium chloride that is the primary ingredient of the "slime coat additives" generates a mucous response that literally suffocates the tissues.

Additionally, I find that aloe is another ingredient which adds a tremendous amount of bioload to the tank thus triggering algal and bacterial blooms that result in poor water chemistry.

My argument is that these products are designed for pet store fish, which are often stressed and need the boost to their slime coats for immune system support. As amphibian skin is a completely different type of machine, I feel that fish specific water treatments should be avoided.
 
Johnny, I was wondering what brand(s) of water conditioner were you using that made you experience the filament loss? I too came from the fish hobby and have always been a die hard fan of Prime which has slime coat additives. I use it in all my water changes and even over-dose it often and have never had an issue with any filament loss or added nutrients to the water column. Was Prime one of the dechlorinators that you experienced problems with?
 
JessKB said:
Johnny, I was wondering what brand(s) of water conditioner were you using that made you experience the filament loss? I too came from the fish hobby and have always been a die hard fan of Prime which has slime coat additives. I use it in all my water changes and even over-dose it often and have never had an issue with any filament loss or added nutrients to the water column. Was Prime one of the dechlorinators that you experienced problems with?
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I have never used Prime once in my life. I cannot give an valid opinion on it. I have always been leery of Sea Chem products for freshwater use. Call me paranoid, but they always seemed to cater to the saltwater community, which is something I never got into.

Here is a pretty good breakdown of o few of the common water conditioners, but keep in mind it is for FISH. As many folks never seem to grasp, caudates are NOT fish. ;)

Aquarium Water Conditioners

Please note this fellow uses the potassium permangante method of testing a conditioner. I use the iodine method. Both chemicals are toxic to amphibians in even moderate doses, so if you decide to try this out for yourself, DO NOT do it in an established tank. Do it in a throw away container like and old spaghetti sauce jar. I went so far as to purchase pure sodium thiosulfate and pure sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate and experiment with making my own conditioner nearly a decade ago. trust me, it is cheaper to buy the off the shelf stuff. :p

The brands I used over the years are listed in the article, the ones I had confirmed trouble with amphibians are Aquasafe,Tetra EasyBalance, Start RIght, Stress Coat,NovAqua+ and NovAqua.

I have become a dedicated Kordon Amquel+ (not regular Amquel) user for close to six years now. It works for me.

One thing to keep in mind is that your tap water probably has a very different chemistry than mine. I tried these products out with San Diego Municipal water, La Mesa municipal water, Omaha Municipal water, and Bellevue, NE, municipal water. Only the Amquel+ stayed true to me across the country.

Also note that I do still keep a few fish, for which I use Both regular Amquel and Novaqua for them. And, that just because this is my experience and opinion of these products, you most likely will have very different thoughts on the matter.
 
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Have to say this is quite interesting, as I use one of the conditioners named and have done for years. I did try years ago to change over to a non, additive one and ended up with sick axies ( they whew in different tanks then) and as soon as I whent back they were fine.

But I will say there gill filaments are not as fluffy as most, and never have been. I always put it down to the fact that the water is very oxygen rich.
The main reason I came to that conclusion was back when they were younger and I did have to fridge them (using the same water conditioners) they got fluffier.
 
lollypop said:
Have to say this is quite interesting, as I use one of the conditioners named and have done for years. I did try years ago to change over to a non, additive one and ended up with sick axies ( they whew in different tanks then) and as soon as I whent back they were fine.

But I will say there gill filaments are not as fluffy as most, and never have been. I always put it down to the fact that the water is very oxygen rich.
The main reason I came to that conclusion was back when they were younger and I did have to fridge them (using the same water conditioners) they got fluffier.
Click to expand...


A prime example of, what works for one may not work for others.

I agree that with axolotls, and other neotenic, exposed gill species that the O2 content of the water also has quite a bit to do with fillembrial development.
 
:happy:
It could also be due to my hideous tap water.
I used to be extremely fastidious about my testing, (pure tap, treated tap & tank water )
I know we have cloromine, added and therefore has to be treated, but I've also had ammonia readings straight from the tap as well.
So when I found one that worked and wasn't causing tank crashes I kind of stuck with it.

That's also why I go with filters, most large externals ( more water volume) and mainly with. Ceramic type media, so larger surface area for the bacteria, that way they more or less look after themselves.
 
lollypop said:
:happy:
It could also be due to my hideous tap water.
I used to be extremely fastidious about my testing, (pure tap, treated tap & tank water )
I know we have cloromine, added and therefore has to be treated, but I've also had ammonia readings straight from the tap as well.
So when I found one that worked and wasn't causing tank crashes I kind of stuck with it.

That's also why I go with filters, most large externals ( more water volume) and mainly with. Ceramic type media, so larger surface area for the bacteria, that way they more or less look after themselves.
Click to expand...

I use the benign neglect method. Truthfully, the only filters I use are for the turtle and fish tanks. Caudates get bubblers and "pond" tanks.
 
I would like to go the more 'neglect' route, but my hubby would go spare I think, :rolleyes:
Because although they are all my pets, he gets paranoid about there care, and wants facts and figures. If it looks like I'm looking in a tank the wrong way he's all, 'that's it get the test kit out'
The amount of times I have had to prove something's ok by saying, I have checked on posts, care sheets etc on here. :D

Would love to have a proper pond outside but I live on a really steep hill, so I'm hoping when my kids finally decide to move out (haha) I might get an indoor pond.
 
I have used a couple of different chemicals and cannot say I have seen any difference between Prime and Amquel+ other than price and Prime being particularly concentrated (a $4 bottle goes a long, long way). Both work well on particularly bad city water.

But like SludgeMunkey said, your experience may be different.
 
I stopped useing any chemicals a long time ago. I couple of 5 gallon buckets filled with hot tap water left cool and age for two days is all I use.
 
I wish I were somewhere that I could do that, but our tap water here is pretty abysmal and aging alone doesn't make it tank-ready
 
vagus said:
I wish I were somewhere that I could do that, but our tap water here is pretty abysmal and aging alone doesn't make it tank-ready
Click to expand...


What do they do to your tap water that letting it stand for two days won't take care of?
 
Also the fact that cloramin unlike chlorine does not dilolve or disparate in air. Over hear any way, gone are the days that just leaving it to stand is fine.
That and the cost factor is why most of the water company's moved to cloramin.
 
Lollypop is right. Chloramines do not evaporate like chlorine does. That's why you need a dechlorinating agent, which breaks the chlorine-amine bond in the chloramine and allows the chlorine to evaporate, leaving the amine (ammonia) behind to be dealt with by your cycle-bacteria or water changes.

Chloramine is much cheaper and easier to transport than chlorine, so many places have switched.
 
Are there ways to help make their gill filaments fluffier? My wilds don't have very fluffy gills, but in all the pictures I have come across of wilds the don't seem to have as fluffy as say the leucistics? I also use prime, but I have only had these wilds for about a month and they do seem slightly fluffier then when I first got them.
 
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