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Staggered Hatching?

Skdecoteau

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Good Morning,

The short: Is it normal for (aquatic or semi aquatic) salamander or newt** eggs to hatch days apart from one another? And is it normal for a single egg to separate from the rest of the egg sac before hatching?

The long: This has happened 3x now. The first egg separated on Tuesday (May 3) and hatched sometime early on Thursday morning. The larva seems to be growing and otherwise okay.

Then, nothing from the rest of the eggs until yesterday, when another one separated and hatched but the larva died because it was underdeveloped (no tail).

Then, a third one hatched sometime last night and it seems healthy and fully developed (as far as I can tell anyway), and another egg with what looks like a fully developed larva has separated but not yet hatched.

The rest of the eggs look like they're in various states of development.

The eggs are in a shallow water tank in a place that gets filtered sunlight at various points throughout the day, but never gets too hot. I do not have any kind of filter or aeration going but I have been doing partial water changes every so often using bottled spring water.

I did start out by preparing the water the same way I prep it for a regular aquarium, using dechlorination drops, but then I read that those are bad news for salamanders, so I switched to the bottled water instead. I hope I didn't mess up by doing that.

Anyway, thoughts or comments from your own experiences would be greatly appreciated.

**I'm not positive on the id - I *think* they're eastern newt? - and none of the pics I've taken are clear enough to bother with posting. I will try to get some better pics up in a separate thread, though, so that other people can benefit from the id as well.
 

Skdecoteau

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I did start out by preparing the water the same way I prep it for a regular aquarium, using dechlorination drops, but then I read that those are bad news for salamanders, so I switched to the bottled water instead. I hope I didn't mess up by doing that.
So, my bad. I read contradictory advice that the dechlorination drops used for aquariums were harmful to salamanders/newts, but the information here indicates the opposite. I will go back to my previous method.

Fortunately, I've never felt comfortable with using untreated tap water, even after leaving it out for a few days, due to the persistence of chloramine, so I never used that in the newts' tanks.
 

JM29

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Is it normal for (aquatic or semi aquatic) salamander or newt** eggs to hatch days apart from one another?
Yes, it is normal for newts of Family Salamandridae, SubFamily Pleurodelinae, Tribe Molgini (old world and new world newts except pleurodeles and Tylototritons...).
These newts lay a few eggs a day during several weeks. So these eggs hatch at different dates.
Eastern newt is part of this Tribe.

And is it normal for a single egg to separate from the rest of the egg sac before hatching?
I don't see what you call an egg sac, which is typical of Hynobiidae, but in this case, eggs should hatch almost simultaneously since they would have been laid the same day.
You can try to identifie your salamander/newt with the help of Caudata Culture (in this site) or Amphibiaweb.
 

Skdecoteau

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This is what I mean by "egg sac". A picture is worth a thousand words, I hope?

Note that this pic was taken a few weeks ago and that the larvae are far more developed at this point.

A few more of them hatched yesterday after my original post, and most seem healthy. There are still some that haven't yet hatched.

IMG_20220501_181537319.jpg
 

Skdecoteau

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Using Google images search and Cuadata articles I believe they may be either spotted salamanders or eastern newts. I get why it's hard to ID them when they're this young.
 

JM29

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About Eastern newt in Caudata Culture :

"200-400 eggs are laid singly on aquatic vegetation".

I doubt they are eastern newt eggs. Perhaps an Ambystoma species.
 

Skdecoteau

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About Eastern newt in Caudata Culture :

"200-400 eggs are laid singly on aquatic vegetation".

I doubt they are eastern newt eggs. Perhaps an Ambystoma species.
Duh. Somehow I missed that. 🙄

Here are the best pics I could get of the larvae so far. It is wicked hard to get a clear photo of these tiny little things with my craptastic phone camera.

The one in the small tank without substrate was the first one to hatch. I separated him/her out for obvious reasons. (It looks like there's less water in the tank than there actually is.)

Btw, a few more have hatched in the past 24hrs, and there are still a few more that haven't yet hatched.

IMG_20220511_133935510_HDR.jpg
IMG_20220511_134120430.jpg
 

Audrey22

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This is what I mean by "egg sac". A picture is worth a thousand words, I hope?

Note that this pic was taken a few weeks ago and that the larvae are far more developed at this point.

A few more of them hatched yesterday after my original post, and most seem healthy. There are still some that haven't yet hatched.

View attachment 92566
These are actually spotted salamander eggs. Eastern newts lay eggs one at a time under leaf foliage.
Duh. Somehow I missed that. 🙄

Here are the best pics I could get of the larvae so far. It is wicked hard to get a clear photo of these tiny little things with my craptastic phone camera.

The one in the small tank without substrate was the first one to hatch. I separated him/her out for obvious reasons. (It looks like there's less water in the tank than there actually is.)

Btw, a few more have hatched in the past 24hrs, and there are still a few more that haven't yet hatched.

View attachment 92573View attachment 92574
These are actually spotted salamander larvea. Eastern newts lay eggs one at a time under leaves. But spotteds use the same types of ponds for their eggs. I thought the same thing when I was first hatching mine because they live in the same pond. Eastern some times eat spotted eggs though.
And it's totally normal for them to develop at different rates. Some will stop developing completely. That's normal. Feed them live food like daphnia and black worms. Eventually some will be big enough to eat the smaller ones. That's when you should put them in a second tank.
Also have lots of foliage in the tank to prevent the overcrowded feeling. Other wise they will bite each others tails and legs off. Just give them plenty of hiding places.
IMG_20210315_221307_816.jpg
20210319_215444_capture.jpg
IMG_20210327_152552_918.jpg
20210409_214627_capture.jpg
20210503_185055.jpg
20210515_094207.jpg
 

Skdecoteau

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These are actually spotted salamander larvea.
That's what I'm thinking, too, but it's nice to have confirmation. Thanks!

Eastern newts lay eggs one at a time under leaves. But spotteds use the same types of ponds for their eggs. I thought the same thing when I was first hatching mine because they live in the same pond. Eastern some times eat spotted eggs though.
And it's totally normal for them to develop at different rates. Some will stop developing completely. That's normal.
Ahhh. I thought it was weird and had been worried I'd done something wrong! Fortunately, almost all of them hatched, one at a time, over an 8 or 9 day period. Only 3 eggs out of a clutch of about 30 didn't develop.

Feed them live food like daphnia and black worms. Eventually some will be big enough to eat the smaller ones.
I've been feeding them baby brine shrimp so far but just got some black worms from an aquarium supply store yesterday. However, the worms are still too big for my salamander babies, even cut up, so I'm trying to culture them or at least keep them alive for a few weeks. 😁

As for the brine shrimp, I've set some aside in a tank and have been feeding them spirulina in hopes of growing them to adult size.

That's when you should put them in a second tank.
Also have lots of foliage in the tank to prevent the overcrowded feeling. Other wise they will bite each others tails and legs off. Just give them plenty of hiding places
Thank you, I have your post from last year bookmarked and have two tanks set up (so far) to start moving them when needed.

I also have a funny story about hiding places. Right now, the salamander larvae are still small enough to completely hide behind small polished river rock pebbles, but one of them keeps burying just his head behind a rock, with the rest of his little body poking out. It's like he's thinking "If I can't see you, you can't see me!"

It's the cutest thing.

However, I am trying to teach him that that's not how it works. Whenever I see him doing that, I'll gently touch him with the cleaning bulb (turkey baster bulb for vacuuming up dead brine shrimp, etc, from the bottom) so that he knows he's visible, and he'll skitter away to a better hiding place.
 

Audrey22

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That's what I'm thinking, too, but it's nice to have confirmation. Thanks!


Ahhh. I thought it was weird and had been worried I'd done something wrong! Fortunately, almost all of them hatched, one at a time, over an 8 or 9 day period. Only 3 eggs out of a clutch of about 30 didn't develop.


I've been feeding them baby brine shrimp so far but just got some black worms from an aquarium supply store yesterday. However, the worms are still too big for my salamander babies, even cut up, so I'm trying to culture them or at least keep them alive for a few weeks. 😁

As for the brine shrimp, I've set some aside in a tank and have been feeding them spirulina in hopes of growing them to adult size.


Thank you, I have your post from last year bookmarked and have two tanks set up (so far) to start moving them when needed.

I also have a funny story about hiding places. Right now, the salamander larvae are still small enough to completely hide behind small polished river rock pebbles, but one of them keeps burying just his head behind a rock, with the rest of his little body poking out. It's like he's thinking "If I can't see you, you can't see me!"

It's the cutest thing.

However, I am trying to teach him that that's not how it works. Whenever I see him doing that, I'll gently touch him with the cleaning bulb (turkey baster bulb for vacuuming up dead brine shrimp, etc, from the bottom) so that he knows he's visible, and he'll skitter away to a better hiding place.
Lol they are pretty cute :) I kept the 2 oldest sallies from last year and named them Amiel and Amelia. When their legs became prominent( you'll see what I mean when you get there) they started getting personalities. Amiel is very confident and would be very curious about the tongs I fed them with. He would snap at it and climb up. Amelia is a bit more timid. As adults, I can feed amiel out of my hand and boop his nose a lot. Amelia will let me boop her once or twice before she goes in her den. They are surprisingly very unique.
 

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salamandernewbe101

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Good Morning,

The short: Is it normal for (aquatic or semi aquatic) salamander or newt** eggs to hatch days apart from one another? And is it normal for a single egg to separate from the rest of the egg sac before hatching?

The long: This has happened 3x now. The first egg separated on Tuesday (May 3) and hatched sometime early on Thursday morning. The larva seems to be growing and otherwise okay.

Then, nothing from the rest of the eggs until yesterday, when another one separated and hatched but the larva died because it was underdeveloped (no tail).

Then, a third one hatched sometime last night and it seems healthy and fully developed (as far as I can tell anyway), and another egg with what looks like a fully developed larva has separated but not yet hatched.

The rest of the eggs look like they're in various states of development.

The eggs are in a shallow water tank in a place that gets filtered sunlight at various points throughout the day, but never gets too hot. I do not have any kind of filter or aeration going but I have been doing partial water changes every so often using bottled spring water.

I did start out by preparing the water the same way I prep it for a regular aquarium, using dechlorination drops, but then I read that those are bad news for salamanders, so I switched to the bottled water instead. I hope I didn't mess up by doing that.

Anyway, thoughts or comments from your own experiences would be greatly appreciated.

**I'm not positive on the id - I *think* they're eastern newt? - and none of the pics I've taken are clear enough to bother with posting. I will try to get some better pics up in a separate thread, though, so that other people can benefit from the id as well.
the same thing is hapening to ne
 

Audrey22

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When their mouths are too small, feed them daphnia and brine shrimp. When they get about an inch long they can eat black worms.

As far as cleaning, I don't clean it more than every few weeks unless something is wrong with the ammonia or its a new tank. The best way to set up a tank is to have little gravel or substrate down and the MOST important thing is to put Sand gravel down. It keeps the poop from getting in the gravel.
Then get a thicker aquarium tubing and make a snd the light suction just above the sand will scoop up the poop. Even if a baby gets sucked up the larger tube, it's big enough that it won't hurt them at all.
(Leave some gravel around plants exposed so they can get some fertilizer)

Another small tip, put a small plastic lid in there to let the food settle on. It makes the clean up easier. And when you get to black worms, put a bowl in the sand with gravel in it the worms that land in it will be easy pickings for the sals.

Does that help? I wish I could send videos on here lol this is the size when they can eat black worms.


Examples of sand placement and dish for blackworms
20210426_111112.jpg

20210510_082959.jpg


The thicker hose
20210408_195706.jpg


I hope the pictures help.
 

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Skdecoteau

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When their mouths are too small, feed them daphnia and brine shrimp. When they get about an inch long they can eat black worms.

As far as cleaning, I don't clean it more than every few weeks unless something is wrong with the ammonia or its a new tank. The best way to set up a tank is to have little gravel or substrate down and the MOST important thing is to put Sand gravel down. It keeps the poop from getting in the gravel.
Then get a thicker aquarium tubing and make a snd the light suction just above the sand will scoop up the poop. Even if a baby gets sucked up the larger tube, it's big enough that it won't hurt them at all.
(Leave some gravel around plants exposed so they can get some fertilizer)

Another small tip, put a small plastic lid in there to let the food settle on. It makes the clean up easier. And when you get to black worms, put a bowl in the sand with gravel in it the worms that land in it will be easy pickings for the sals.

Does that help? I wish I could send videos on here lol this is the size when they can eat black worms.


Examples of sand placement and dish for blackworms
View attachment 92766
View attachment 92767

The thicker hose
View attachment 92768

I hope the pictures help.
Thank you. The bowl for the black worms is a great idea! I've just been dropping them in using a plastic pipette and then vacuuming the bottom of the tank with a turkey baster bulb. I confess that I don't have much substrate in the tank so that it's easier to keep it clean when I feed BBS, but once the sals graduate off of those completely I'll redo their set up.

Keeping the black worm culture clean is a pain, though. If I use a coffee filter to filter them from the water in order to change the water, then all of the other particulates in the water get trapped in the filter, too, including the nasty stuff I'm trying to get rid of. But if I use a mesh strainer, the black worms get stuck in the holes and the seams along the edges of the strainer... So I've given up on feeding the black worms anything other than paper towels so that the water doesn't get funky so quickly. But I wonder how that affects the nutrition for the salamanders.
 
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