Suitable Axolotl Tankmates

[auntiejude]

Would an extra 5" of water in an adult ACF's tank be barely adequate? Honest question here I don't own any and have never researched what they need and truthfully don't have much of a desire for them but just curious.

No, it would be unsuitable! ACFs stand on their hind legs with their nose out of the water - they can't do that if the water is too deep. And axies like to swim straight up to the surface - which is why they need it deeper.

In addition to this the frogs like to burrow in mud, and they make the tank cloudy - they like murky water, whereas axies prefer clear water or at least a substrate that settles after it has been disturbed.

 

[xxianxx]

Clawed frogs are fine in deeper water, in fact the more water volume they get the better as they are messy.

 

[auntiejude]

they are messy.

Aren't all amphibians....?!

 

[Jonjey]

Aren't all amphibians....?!

Okay hear me out here. I don't plan on doing this but.. If someone had a 18" high tank filled to the top with water and they had the devices to keep it at 20 degrees and they built ledges at the 7"-10" range from the top of the water and used a fine play sand that the frogs could mess with and axolotls could be okay with...
Would this be a suitable living arrangement for both animals? Again, I'm not doing this I don't have any desire to have an ACF but this topic intrigues me.

 

[xxianxx]

Aren't all amphibians....?!

Some are messier than others, clawed frogs eat loads and wreck water quality.

Okay hear me out here. I don't plan on doing this but.. If someone had a 18" high tank filled to the top with water and they had the devices to keep it at 20 degrees and they built ledges at the 7"-10" range from the top of the water and used a fine play sand that the frogs could mess with and axolotls could be okay with...
Would this be a suitable living arrangement for both animals? Again, I'm not doing this I don't have any desire to have an ACF but this topic intrigues me.

Your still mixing species

 

[Chinadog]

After all that, could somebody please explain the benefits to me of mixing two or more species in a tank together apart from feeders because i'm struggling to think of any at all?

 

[Jonjey]

After all that, could somebody please explain the benefits to me of mixing two or more species in a tank together apart from feeders because i'm struggling to think of any at all?

Why do people have two kinds of fish in a fish tank. Why do people put anything in a fish tank? Both these answers are the same as the one you're looking for.

 

[Chinadog]

Because the animals involved are so cheap that i'ts worth the risk to a lot of people, as long as they look nice for a month or so? If the fish, or Axolotls, or whatever else cost a weeks salary, they would think carefully about the risks involved, in fact they would think a bit more about weather they either could, or could be bothered to to provide them with the correct environment for a half natural lifespan. Anyone that genuinely wants the best for their aquatic pets don't take unnecessary risks just to see them all in the same tank together.

 

[Jonjey]

Because the animals involved are so cheap that i'ts worth the risk to a lot of people, as long as they look nice for a month or so? If the fish, or Axolotls, or whatever else cost a weeks salary, they would think carefully about the risks involved, in fact they would think a bit more about weather they either could, or could be bothered to to provide them with the correct environment for a half natural lifespan. Anyone that genuinely wants the best for their aquatic pets don't take unnecessary risks just to see them all in the same tank together.

I put feeder fish in my axolotl tank does that make me a bad owner?

 

[Chinadog]

No.

 

[Jonjey]

No.

I'm just trying to figure out the differences between the perfect axolotl habitat and the perfect ACF habitat and see if they can be reached together. It certainly seems like their requirements can be reached with the proper thought and the right equipment. It may not be the absolute PERFECT living but if it's not harmful or stressful for them then it's something to think about.

 

[auntiejude]

After all that, could somebody please explain the benefits to me of mixing two or more species in a tank together

There are none, and Jonjey is just trying to wind people up for his own amusement now

 

[Jonjey]

There are none, and Jonjey is just trying to wind people up for his own amusement now

Can you please respond as to what would be the negative side of having an 18" high tank with several levels for the frogs that are 7-10" from the surface as well as a good layer of play sand for them and a steady 20 degrees?

 

[texa]

'It may not be the absolute PERFECT living'

Why would you not want the PERFECT living for your pets? I do, and I strive to reach those conditions at all times.

With regards to fish, I know many tropical fish keepers (myself included) will only keep fish which originate from the same area. My fish all naturally exist in the Amazon Basin, which means you can expect no antagonism or fighting.

Also, is 20°C not the upper thermal limit for axies? I simply do not see the point in forcing two non-naturally occurring species together for your benefit, where the conditions for each are not optimal.

 

[Jonjey]

'It may not be the absolute PERFECT living'

Why would you not want the PERFECT living for your pets? I do, and I strive to reach those conditions at all times.

With regards to fish, I know many tropical fish keepers (myself included) will only keep fish which originate from the same area. My fish all naturally exist in the Amazon Basin, which means you can expect no antagonism or fighting.

Also, is 20°C not the upper thermal limit for axies? I simply do not see the point in forcing two non-naturally occurring species together for your benefit, where the conditions for each are not optimal.

Well she said optimal temp is 15-20 and 20-25 so I'd imagine 20 is within the "optimal" range for both. Your animals don't need perfection, I don't know about you but a $500 chiller is perfection and that is just plain silly to spend that on something to keep the temperature 4 degrees cooler than a simple fan system would. I mean by your logic you can't keep two fish that require similar living arrangements but are from completely different regions together... It just seems like people are way too over the top about this stuff. If 15-20 is perfect for axolotls and 20-25 is perfect for ACF and ACF needs 7-10" of water and axolotls need 12-18" of water and you build levels for the ACF to have that 7-10" of water in certain spots within the tank while having the right substrate and the right equipment to keep the tank at 20 degrees then I don't see why that wouldn't work. The counter of "you're still mixing species" is a counter with no backing, no actual logic to explain the reasoning behind it, simply something that people seem to say because they saw other people say it. The counter of it not being perfect doesn't hold much ground to me because you can never achieve perfect, you can only achieve optimal, and auntie jude described the optimal living arrangements for both and both can be met with the proper thought, experience, and effort. Now, if there are more things that what she stated to be the only differentiation between the two optimal living arrangements then a counter can be made that my plan isn't fully thought out, but that argument hasn't been made yet. I'm very interested to hear more about why the plan that I proposed would not be a suitable living arrangement for both creatures.
I feel like people are defending it for the sake of defending it rather than using logic and trying to learn more about this topic. It's an interesting topic, a topic that deserves to be thought out far beyond the logic of "just don't do it because I said so".

 

[texa]

I really think that in this case any point will not fulfil what you would call a reasonable counter-argument.

Axolotls are from Mexico, and African Clawed Frogs are from Africa (surprise surprise). Now I personally would see that as good enough reason not to mix the two species. Adding to that you would be pushing the boundaries of the conditions each need (space, temperature, water level) and allowing the potential for inter-species aggression. This seems to consist of a fairly good argument against keeping these two species together.

I don't think this 'topic' needs any more thought. You have had the opinions of some extremely knowledgeable people, and some logical explanations of why this idea is not a good one. It's ok to be curious, but there's no need to be argumentative for the sake of it

Also, I will add that if I could not fulfil the perfect/optimal conditions for my pets, I would simply not keep them.

 

[Jonjey]

I really think that in this case any point will not fulfil what you would call a reasonable counter-argument.

Axolotls are from Mexico, and African Clawed Frogs are from Africa (surprise surprise). Now I personally would see that as good enough reason not to mix the two species. Adding to that you would be pushing the boundaries of the conditions each need (space, temperature, water level) and allowing the potential for inter-species aggression. This seems to consist of a fairly good argument against keeping these two species together.

I don't think this 'topic' needs any more thought. You have had the opinions of some extremely knowledgeable people, and some logical explanations of why this idea is not a good one. It's ok to be curious, but there's no need to be argumentative for the sake of it

Also, I will add that if I could not fulfil the perfect/optimal conditions for my pets, I would simply not keep them.

I have the opinions of extremely knowledgeable people who seem to have read that it wasn't okay therefore spread the message further without going into any depth on the subject personally. You don't feed your dog slabs of $30 steak every day do you? That sounds like the PERFECT living for a dog, but I'm sure you don't do it because a $10 bag of dog food is sufficient.

 

[GlowingFauxPas]

I really think that in this case any point will not fulfil what you would call a reasonable counter-argument.

Axolotls are from Mexico, and African Clawed Frogs are from Africa (surprise surprise). Now I personally would see that as good enough reason not to mix the two species. Adding to that you would be pushing the boundaries of the conditions each need (space, temperature, water level) and allowing the potential for inter-species aggression. This seems to consist of a fairly good argument against keeping these two species together.
.

Nature doesn't try to make sure animals don't eat each other. Nature also doesn't care if a cold front or warm front comes in and kills a whole bunch of amphibians in a local area.

I'm not taking sides here either way but it seems to me mimicking the natural conditions is a dead-end unless you want to dump pollutants into your fish tank while Mexican farmers try desperately to breed axolotls fast enough to dump back into your fish tank while replacing the dead ones????

 

[texa]

Mimicking natural conditions is certainly not a 'dead-end'! The original and natural conditions for axolotls is clear, cool, unpolluted water. It just so happens that now, man's influence has changed those conditions. So yes, enthusiasts still attempt to mimic natural conditions, as those are the ones that encourage the best growth, survival, and reproductive rates.

In answer to ' You don't feed your dog slabs of $30 steak every day do you? That sounds like the PERFECT living for a dog, but I'm sure you don't do it because a $10 bag of dog food is sufficient.'...

I don't have a dog, because at the moment I could not provide the conditions that are optimal for it (time for exercise, space, vet bills etc). However, if I had a dog I would ensure that what I was feeding it was going to cover its nutritional needs, which may or may not be supplied by cheap/expensive dog food. In this case I do not know much about dogs, but I can say for certain that proper care for axolotls is easy and it is therefore ignorant/lazy to not attempt to provide conditions which are optimal. Non-optimal in this discussion is certainly the presence of ACF as tankmates.

Anyway, I think I'm done here. Seems like this could go on all day!

 

[Jonjey]

Mimicking natural conditions is certainly not a 'dead-end'! The original and natural conditions for axolotls is clear, cool, unpolluted water. It just so happens that now, man's influence has changed those conditions. So yes, enthusiasts still attempt to mimic natural conditions, as those are the ones that encourage the best growth, survival, and reproductive rates.

In answer to ' You don't feed your dog slabs of $30 steak every day do you? That sounds like the PERFECT living for a dog, but I'm sure you don't do it because a $10 bag of dog food is sufficient.'...

I don't have a dog, because at the moment I could not provide the conditions that are optimal for it (time for exercise, space, vet bills etc). However, if I had a dog I would ensure that what I was feeding it was going to cover its nutritional needs, which may or may not be supplied by cheap/expensive dog food. In this case I do not know much about dogs, but I can say for certain that proper care for axolotls is easy and it is therefore ignorant/lazy to not attempt to provide conditions which are optimal. Non-optimal in this discussion is certainly the presence of ACF as tankmates.

Anyway, I think I'm done here. Seems like this could go on all day!

You still aren't backing up anything that you say with evidence or statistics or even theoretical explanations. You're still saying it won't work because you say it won't work. You're saying that the presence of an ACF is non-optimal, yet you don't explain why. You don't explain why a tank that is set up well for both creatures is non-optimal. My two tanks are set up for axolotls. Only axolotls. I don't own frogs. I don't have plans to own frogs.
So basically, your logic is that ACF and Axolotl optimal living arrangements are impossible to reach in the same tank, not because of any actual living arrangements, but because one is an ACF and one is an Axolotl and you don't think they should be tanked together because you don't think they should be tanked together? If 15-20 is optimal then 20 is still optimal. If 20-25 is optimal than 20 is still optimal. If you say it isn't then you're nitpicking and honestly being absurd. You're basically saying anyone without an aquarium chiller shouldn't be allowed to own an Axolotl because that $500 piece of equipment is the only thing that will make the tank perfect for them. Anyone who doesn't have an earth worm farm set up shouldn't be allowed to own an Axolotl, anyone who doesn't have whatever YOU deem "perfect" for this creature shouldn't be allowed to own one. Blatantly ignorant. Anyone who doesn't make 100k+ a year shouldn't be allowed to have children, anyone who doesn't have a 10 acre yard shouldn't be allowed to have a dog.