SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month

[michael]

Multiple labs in the U.S. have already imported and are conducting research with live B. salamandrivorans.

From what I understand, APHIS has no jurisdiction over the fungus as it is not an agricultural pathogen. If this is the case, these researchers have no regulations governing what they do with the fungus, or where they transport it.

Obviously this is very disturbing.

The researcher that tested my swabs told me he can no longer accept samples that are shipped interstate. I'm guessing that Bsal will be treated as a biological salamander specimen and the restrictions will apply.

 

[FrogEyes]

Starlings and house sparrows were removed from injurious listing because they were well-established in North America with no hope of stopping or removing them. So does USFWS intend to eliminate Plethodon, Siren, Notophthalmus, or Taricha from North America? Do they consider this as possible or desireable? Most of the native species listed are Plethodon. Apart from two species isolated in the Rocky Mountains (P.neomexicanus, P.idahoensis), these form more or less contiguous populations in eastern North America. Even without spread via fish, insect, air, waterway, bird, vehicle tires, footwear, etc, Bsal once introduced to the wild can spread virtually continent-wide just by moving Plethodon-to-Plethodon. A movement ban will not stop it, and other [often human] vectors will be a greater and faster hazard. Only three species are known to occur naturally outside the USA, with each occurring in both Canada and the USA, and each having contiguous populations along the border which conjoin Pacific (P.vehiculum), Rocky Mountain (P.idahoensis), and Eastern regions (P.cinereus). An import ban on Plethodon will have no useful effect. Siren occur in Mexico, with contiguous populations in Mexico, so import or movement bans will have no value with respect to Siren either.


In any case, banning these species will not impair movement of the fungus via untested or tested and 'non-vector' [a possibly spurious conclusion] species. It will also not be in hobbyists' interests to test species not-yet-banned, as that could simply lead to an extension of the ban. Conversely, for genera already listed, testing could be useful to show that banning of entire genera based on one or two species might be premature and wrong.

We [I?] need to look more closely at the Act with regard to eggs. If the law bans shipping of eggs, then the interim listing would be deceptive once again by suggesting otherwise.

 

[manderkeeper]

If it's true that we cannot ship swabs, I will be unable to test future specimens as there is no lab for this inside my state.

 

[DartFrog180]

See link below for recently published proposed strategies for addressing the possible/eventual establishment of Bsal in the USA.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2015/1233/ofr20151233.pdf

 

[TheAmphibianGuy]

You can still own salamanders though right?

 

[NaterPotater]

This was my message to U.S. Fish & Wildlife Services:
Fish and Wildlife Service


"I am one of many people that are shocked and upset by the news that so many newt and salamander species are going to be prohibited from interstate transportation. Importation from other countries is one thing, but banning trade and sale of newts and salamanders across state lines is ridiculous. The animals don't end up in lakes and ponds. They end up in people's homes where they can be cared for by hobbyists. Please reconsider this ban on interstate movement. If you don't, you will ultimately be killing the salamander/newt hobby."


I think everyone should send a message/email (or even make a phone call) to them. They certainly can't ignore all of us.

 

[michael]

If you email or fax your comment it is not considered. Comments must be mailed or hand delivered.

This was my message to U.S. Fish & Wildlife Services:
Fish and Wildlife Service


"I am one of many people that are shocked and upset by the news that so many newt and salamander species are going to be prohibited from interstate transportation. Importation from other countries is one thing, but banning trade and sale of newts and salamanders across state lines is ridiculous. The animals don't end up in lakes and ponds. They end up in people's homes where they can be cared for by hobbyists. Please reconsider this ban on interstate movement. If you don't, you will ultimately be killing the salamander/newt hobby."


I think everyone should send a message/email (or even make a phone call) to them. They certainly can't ignore all of us.

 

[michael]

I read through the entire interim rule today.

I think:
Their is a possibility that more genera will be restricted as data comes in for untested genera.

It would be important to read the petition from "Save the frogs - Save the salamanders" since they are one of the organizations behind this rule.

Their are specific questions listed by USFW that we should answer in our comments.

It is interesting that Bsal has not been found in the wild in the U.S. and most of the theories are based on known spread of Bd. Since Bd and Bsal are closely related they expect them to spread the same.

As comments are made by breeders and salamander keepers about why the rule should be less restrictive other comments will be made on why the rules should be more restrictive.

 

[mr cyclone]

My thoughts are with you across the pond , if you need me to sign a petition to save the hobby let me know.
Maybe this law change could be used to register and test animals so only animals with papers of origin and medical health certified can be moved? Obviously only parentanimals would require testing etc ?

 

[dutch guy]

My thoughts are with you across the pond , if you need me to sign a petition to save the hobby let me know.
Maybe this law change could be used to register and test animals so only animals with papers of origin and medical health certified can be moved? Obviously only parentanimals would require testing etc ?

I signed the one on changes

Verstuurd vanaf mijn LENNY2 met Tapatalk

 

[BwKilcoyne]

I do not know if this was covered at all but I found out that if a petition is done on the white house website and it gets 5,000 signatures, they are obliged to recognize it and have some sort of a response. This could help get some momentum going to get the ban reversed. The website is here:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

 

[Jennewt]

If you email or fax your comment it is not considered. Comments must be mailed or hand delivered.

Just to clarify... you can submit comments electronically, but only from the submission form on the Federal Register.
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...isk-of-salamander-chytrid-fungus#open-comment

 

[sde]

Whilst reading many of the comments submitted to the Fish and Wildlife Service about this ban, i was a bit disappointed to see the same exact same comment 10 times. I am not sure where it is from but apparently people just copy and pasted it. It was very easy to notice that they were all the same, and i feel it portrays the hobby as less professionalized and serious.

Here is the comment;

The newt and salamander keeping hobby is much larger than you realize. Thousands of animals are sent interstate every year and many Americans support themselves wholly or partially from these sales. These diseases are not found in the pet trade. Cutting off the pet trade would increase the pressure for wild caught specimens, which is harmful to the native populations. Furthermore, hobbyists educate the public on the front lines to care for the future of these wonderful species. Many people would know nothing about these creatures without keepers and hobbyists, and the salamander pet trade. This knee-jerk ban does not help the problem but exacerbate it. We agree with an import ban; it would be wonderful if the demands for salamanders and newts could be met within the nation by small and larger scale newt and salamander breeders. It is not right to put an end to this hobby which brings joy and knowledge to so many people. There are better solutions. This plan is not well thought out or well grounded in scientific fact. Thank you.

While i think it is a good comment, i think it won't be taken seriously since there are 10 of them.
I feel it is important for everyone to create their own comments, to show how many of us really care about this and are willing to put our time and efforts into it.

 

[Otterwoman]

That was my comment originally

 

[michael]

Many of the comments on the federal register against the interstate ban will do little to support our cause. Some look like junior high essays that were quickly written to do a homework assignment. Many are copies of suggested comments from several forums. Some people put a bunch of comments in using different variations of the same name for the author. Some people just keep putting comments in under the same name. One well thought out comment will be important. Much of the drivel submitted by caudate enthusiasts doesn't really support or cause. It makes the community look uneducated and uninformed about the issues.

 

[josh1990]

Hello, I know it has been too long since I posted anything of use, but when I saw this ban in the news, I wanted to know anything I could help to stop this vast and over-reaching law. So I have filled out the form posted to show the numbers of caudate owners/breeders and numbers of animals kept and captive bred. I also called and talked to the staff of my Representative in the House of Representives and I am going to contact both of my states Senators. The staff of my Rep. was very interested in my concerns and the concerns of the people in the hobby. So I`m going to go through the concerns I talked to them about:
1) That our community fully suports the ban on imported salamanders from areas known to have bsal because of the great risk of it impacting native populations of caudates.
2) No known case of bsal has ever been reported from wild or captive caudates in the United States.
3) We are, however against the ban on the sale and transportation of salamanders across state lines.That doing so would simply destroy this hobby and the economic impact on those that breed caudates as a main source of imcome and those that suppliment their income with captive breeding would be huge.
4) Since swabs or samples taken from caudates to be tested for many pathogens can no longer be sent across state lines it would impact hobbyist/breeders because many states do not have labs that can test these samples. Thus by doing so, hobbyist/breeders would have no place to test to see if their animals have it.This would hinder the ability to isolate and treat the caudates that, in the very remote chance, have it. This would be counter-productive in the ablity to identify an animal that is either infected and sick or a specimen that is carrying bsal.
5) As others have pointed out, that the scientific names are old and outdated. If they cannot even get the name right, why should we trust their "data" is correct on anything?
6) What evidence do they have to support that buying and transporting c.b. animals across state lines would spread the fungus to wild population?
7) What scientists or groups did Fish&Game consult with? If they only consulted with groups/people that are against the captivity of any herptile, would that not be biased?
If anyone else have some suggestions/evidence I that I could pass on to my representatives I would truly welcome any and would be very grateful! Sorry for the wall of text but I needed a place to vent with good and wise people that feel just as angry about this as well.I hope we can instil some common sense to the people who represent us but common sense is hard to find anymore.
Josh

 

[pete]

Many of the comments on the federal register against the interstate ban will do little to support our cause. Some look like junior high essays that were quickly written to do a homework assignment. Many are copies of suggested comments from several forums. Some people put a bunch of comments in using different variations of the same name for the author. Some people just keep putting comments in under the same name. One well thought out comment will be important. Much of the drivel submitted by caudate enthusiasts doesn't really support or cause. It makes the community look uneducated and uninformed about the issues.

I think you have different folks in this community that are against this ban. Some are highly knowledgable caudate researchers or breeders, some are just regular folk, and some are even young kids/adults, but they are all concerned about this ban. Not everyone may have the skill set necessary to submit a beautiful elaborated comment that addresses the point-by-point listed questions, but still want to get involved. These people could be harnessed to simply show that many people care about this issue and it's not a tiny, insignificant portion of the population affected.

Nonetheless, people shouldn't copy and paste verbatim comments, or multiple times with different aliases. If people just want to say they support the caudata.org position. In my opinion, such comment should be personalized and simply convey the concept, "I care about caudates and I oppose the ban on interstate trade."

But I suppose it's something to consider. What's someone to do who has no direct expertise on breeding/Bsal, but trusts the expertise on this forum and wants to get involved?

 

[blushed]

I think you have different folks in this community that are against this ban. Some are highly knowledgable caudate researchers or breeders, some are just regular folk, and some are even young kids/adults, but they are all concerned about this ban. Not everyone may have the skill set necessary to submit a beautiful elaborated comment that addresses the point-by-point listed questions, but still want to get involved. These people could be harnessed to simply show that many people care about this issue and it's not a tiny, insignificant portion of the population affected.



Nonetheless, people shouldn't copy and paste verbatim comments, or multiple times with different aliases. If people just want to say they support the caudata.org position. In my opinion, such comment should be personalized and simply convey the concept, "I care about caudates and I oppose the ban on interstate trade."



But I suppose it's something to consider. What's someone to do who has no direct expertise on breeding/Bsal, but trusts the expertise on this forum and wants to get involved?

I agree with this, whether it looks bad or not, there are people with less education on the subject who are doing their best to try and help.


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[manderkeeper]

Well, not every vote counts the same, certainly someone economically impacted or conducting valuable research are top concerns but sheer numbers and willingness to vote based on an issue are top concerns, too. Despite mass homocides, law makers are unwilling to ban guns... now gun rights guys, don't get worked up, I don't want to see guns banned.... but it proves the point that actual danger to human and animal life is nearly at the bottom of the list of political concerns otherwise we'd be addressing oil spills, pollution, and habitat destruction which are largely ignored today.

 

[josh1990]

Who are the groups and people that pushed for the ban in the first place? I would like to know and think all of us in the hobby should know. I just want to understand why transportation of captive-bred caudates,in their minds, pose a risk to wild populations? If they want to find out if populations captive or wild, have the fungus, why would they ban the transportation of swabs that could find it? There seems to me they don`t have a leg to stand on regarding all this & they are using fear, not facts, to push their own agenda.