T. wenxianensis

[GeoNewt]

Hi all. I was wondering if anyone has experience with T. wenxianensis or any of the similar species (asperrimus etc). I will be receiving some shortly, but after searching through all the old threads I've struggled to find much info regarding their care.
Thanks, George.

 

[eljorgo]

I lost 5 CB's, their simply too difficult as juvies I guess

 

[GeoNewt]

Oh, I'm sorry to hear of your loss. When looking through the old wenxianensis threads I saw yours about your 5 juveniles - was I right in understanding that it was the condition they were in when they arrived due to the poor shipping rather than how difficult they are to keep that caused such problems? Mine are CB too and will only be in the post for 2 days, so they should arrive in good condition.

 

[eljorgo]

well yeah you're right fellow... anyway they wouldn't feed at all--- but maybe its also due to their poor conditions...thankfully i will receive other 5 for free in some weeks so i hope this time i am more lucky...

Jorge

 

[GeoNewt]

Oh ok, glad to hear that you will get another chance with them anyway. Mine have just arrived, in seemingly very good condition, so here are a couple of quick pictures.

 

[eljorgo]

Hey, well I wouldn't be so sure, your animals clearly have the shine as most of mine did. The shine is very common in young newts that are kept in wrong levels of moisture (either of the ground or atmospheric) The skin becomes affected, the animal stressed, feeds less and becomes lots more secretive. It may stop feeding and that is really bad when you notice their backbones then its not OK. Skin problems in young tylototriton or paramesotriton are really common but can be curable by correcting levels of moisture and making the animal free of any stress at a relatively low temperature and in full darkness for couple time. Never handled. You can also try to feed it under low lights with tiny prey items and then gradually larger.

cheers,

 

[eljorgo]

Also not sure if those are really T. wenxianensis... One of the pics give me the idea of T. taliangensis... If you wanna check mine visit ARKive.org and search for wenxianensis in the seach bar. Cheers,

 

[Azhael]

They look to me like they are simply very recent morphs, not like they have the shine. Recent morphs usually look sort of like they have the shine, but soon enough the skin develops completely and the shiny look is lost. I just had a C.pyrrhogaster morph a few days ago and only now its skin looks normal. It´s always the same.

I wouldn´t worry just yet...it´s too soon to panic.
They look to me like wenxianensis...the spot behind the head is confussing but i think your animals simply have the remnant of the yellow gills.

 

[eljorgo]

simply have the remnant of the yellow gills.

Yeah...who told you they have yellow gills??!

I wouldn´t worry just yet...it´s too soon to panic.

right.. I've seen you're really comfortable raising this species Rodrigo, witch is very nice, my congratulations to you...

They look to me like they are simply very recent morphs, not like they have the shine. Recent morphs usually look sort of like they have the shine, but soon enough the skin develops completely and the shiny look is lost. I just had a C.pyrrhogaster morph a few days ago and only now it´s skin looks normal. It´s always the same.

same as above...

 

[Azhael]

Why are you taking my post as an attack :S???
I can´t have a different opinion? No, i haven´t raised this species but i´ve seen recent morphs of many species look just like if they had the shine. It´s normal and it´s part of the development of the morph.
I only said the yellow spot behind the head looked like remnant of gills because it really does...you can even seewhat to me looks like the branching of what´s left of the gills. I do ignore if the larva have yellow gills or not, but those spots certainly look like receding gills to me.
Nothing like the rounded, defined spot in taliangensis. Of course it could just be that the big spot of taliangensis hasn´t developed yet, but that´s why i´m saying i THINK they are wenxianensis....
Since you are questioning my experience, how about we question yours? Have you seen just morphed wenxianensis? can you tell for sure a shiny look in the skin is not normal for a recent morph of this species? Because it sure is for kweichowensis, shanjing, etc....
I don´t know why you take my opinion as an attack to yours, but i really don´t care.

 

[eljorgo]

Have you seen just morphed wenxianensis?

yeah sure

can you tell for sure a shiny look in the skin is not normal for a recent morph of this species?

Its fully dark with low % of warts on it.

I don´t know why you take my opinion as an attack to yours, but i really don´t care.

You see you're missing the point completely. I did not either took that as a personal attack or as a experience challenge...

The point is I seriously dislike people who excuse me the words 'barely know something about the theme' and still, love to give advises or to say ''sure its normal, dont worry''. Well you see, those are only 5 words and a small phrase but the life of all group of George's animals might be pending on those 5 words. What I surely want as a primary target, is simply to keep caudata.org away from these events. You see, I've been doing loads of promoting this forum on my country across many many forums, blogs, friends whatever. I simply want the site to be a place were all visible and available info has a true and not misleading content. Point is: those who have true existing experience to give a hand and those not... well they may also give and idea but not write down things like 'sure, don't worry its all okay' were the only info it gathers to tell this words is a 2D, one side, bad cropped picture. Now excuse me both here but I have to be fare and not hypocrite. What has to be told, has to be told, what hasn't shouldn't be told as well.
Misleading info is a dangerous path my fellow-men and I wouldn't put my hands on fire for other members animals, I find it too burning.. but that's me...
In conclusion and for last; it was you, that gave missleading info; attacked me personally

how about we question yours?

, and still judges my experience with other species of crocodile newts.

All I did was state the facts in the thread all off them being nothing but TRUE.
cheers,

Jorge

 

[Azhael]

I accept that i have no personal experience with Tylototriton...that said, i don´t think a (sadly) failed attempt with this species makes you a world-wide expert.
You dismiss my opinion, ok, you are free to do so. Out of all newt species, it´s perfectly normal for recent morphs to have a rather shiny skin as it is a normal part of the development of the skin from an aquatic environment to a terrestrial one. ALL newt species are susceptible of showing this shiny morph skin to various degrees. No reason to assume T.wenxianensis would be the only one not to.
I don´t think it´s far fetched to say that there is a chance that´s what is going on with his animals. It´s a fair assumption. I´m not even contradicting your opinion that it could be the shine, i agree it COULD be, but there are other possibilities that i don´t think can be invalidated just yet. Time will tell...

I didn´t attack you personally, i didn´t even mention you, Jorge. I really don´t think the opinion i gave was missleading, i justified why i wouldn´t jump to the conclussion that it can only be the shine. I didn´t say "don´t listen to Jorge, he is wrong, i´m right, that´s not the shine", i said that i think it´s too soon to be 100% sure and that there is a chance it is not the shine. Not the same thing at all. I love this forum and the wealth of information it provides. I try my best to provide as good an information as i can. I resent that you suggest otherwise...


I´ve felt for a while now that you have something personal against me...i still haven´t figured out why that is but i´d apreciate it if you weren´t so rude in the future as i really don´t think i´ve ever been rude to you.

 

[froggy]

I think that whether or not the animals do have 'the shine' (which is a symptom and not a disease - it could be caused by a number of different things) it would be prudent to keep these animals cool and provide them with both horizontal (sloped-tank/ half covered tank) and vertical (stacked bark etc) humidity gradients. They will be stressed from transit and, if they are anything like other Tylototriton morphs, this could bring on disaster, so making sure they are completely comfortable is going to be important. I would offer them some slow-moving non-biting food (ie. not crickets) to start with so they can feed easily and not risk infections from bites.

Good luck with your animals. It is nice to see CB of this species.

C

 

[eljorgo]

If i had to be fare I would say you're still missing it. But I dont want to bet on off topic so I'd let this over here and maybe elucidate you by pm if you want.

that said, i don´t think a (sadly) failed attempt with this species makes you a world-wide expert.

Nobody called me an expert, and also your acting personal by telling me I failed (I'd like to see them on your hands) I really would... if you saw the state those children arrived to me and try to raise them yourself... In the end you're the one that thinks you're a world-wide expert on the way I see you talking like... But I'm comfortable with that. I dont doubt my qualities and talent in the hobby at all. Think is that you can't play always the role of Rambo in the movie..

Hope I made this clear,
Cheers,
Jorge

 

[Azhael]

I didn´t doubt your habilities. I think it´s quite rich that you are doubting mine, though...
I´ve made my share of mistakes in the past, and i´m definitely no expert in anything. If i had this species maybe i would succeed or maybe i would fail, i don´t know. I don´t apreciate you suggesting that i would fail because if you couldn´t raise the poor fellas, then i don´t have a chance in hell. You don´t have more experience than i do, so insinuating that i´m not an able keeper is hurtful and rude. I don´t account you for past mistakes, which you have made, and i don´t judge your habilities...where do you get off judging mine?

So i act like i´m an expert? Well, i disagree...certainly here it´s you who thinks his opinion is infalible and that the opinions of others have no value because only you can be right.


Anyway, Geonewt, i hope it´s a false alarm and your animals are ok. I´d do as Chris says and play it safe just in case, Tylototriton juveniles certainly have a reputation for being delicate.

 

[eljorgo]

I'd reformute my ideas if i were you. I'm not judge you in any point and I made clear I would like to see you trying to raise you them since you simply said i failed. not saying you would absolutly fail but as you judged me of my failure I just said i would love to see you handle them... thats all.

So i act like i´m an expert? Well, i disagree...certainly here it´s you who thinks his opinion is infalible and that the opinions of others have no value because only you can be right.

I never stated that. I only stated what i experienced, not what i predict.
And thus If the animal is shinny isnt that the own shine it self? I say this because i can confirm i had animals just like those with several weeks after being morphed. And guess what, those were the first ones to die. The more dry looking ones died by another factor.
One this is for sure, A tylototriton, a healthy one, always always must present a clear dry skin (when the animal is of 100% terrestrial activity outside breeding season) like is the case of T. wenxianensis. By morphing time and first 3 days in land it may look shiny but really from a steady start it immediately turns impenetrable and dry to avoid escaping of moisture. And I talk because the ones that died to me, were exactly like the individual pictured. And if you look well to the picture of the newt hanging in the moss, tell me if you see a fat or at least decently well build-up newt...I only want to transmit this: I WOULD ACT and probably do what Chris says, If you read it closely Its exactly the same cares you should offer to an animal with shiny skin, so I guess my eyes are not the only.
I guess we should stop by this mark.

 

[Azhael]

I didn´t judge you for your failure with this species, i actually said that it was sad that they didn´t do well. YOU mentioned you failed with them, i merely said it was sad that you did. I´m not judging you because i have failed to raise other species in the past and i know Tylototriton juveniles are delicate. Stuff happens...

Absolutely true, a terrestrial Tylototriton should have dry, non-shiny skin, but you yourself admit that juveniles don´t for a while until their skin fully develops, so what´s the problem?
Geonewt´s animals look very young to me, recent morphs, so i said that maybe they are young enough for their skin not to be fully developed yet. The fact that they are a bit thin could mean that they are ill or that they are very recent morphs.
It seems to me that we actually have the same opinion, but you chose to attack and undermine me.
Only you know why you took my commentary as an attack that warranted being so rude....


Sorry for deviating the post Geonewt. Good luck!

 

[GeoNewt]

Thanks for all the advice.
Firstly, regarding the identity of the newts, I have looked at them closely and the lighting in the photo certainly brings out the 'yellow gills' - looking at them normally there is no evidence of them whatsoever, and even under close inspection I couldn't notice any remains of gills. There are also several pieces of substrate on the skin in the photos, and under normal conditions they look completely black (apart from the toes). I was given very certain identification from the seller, and I know he has successfully kept the species for several years.
Secondly, I take on board your advice regarding their skin, as I've read that this can be a problem amongst Tylototriton. Again I would add that you can't get too detailed an impression of the animals purely from these pictures, and that their skin doesn't look overly shiny or abnormal. I have taken your advice on the cork stacks to provide a moisture gradient, and I will also not feed crickets for the first few feeds as a precaution.
They were bred in 2010 in Germany, and had been in the seller's care for some time, so they are certainly not new metamorphs. I will endeavor to take some more photos shortly.
Regards, George.

 

[eljorgo]

Whatever you think Im tired and bored with this since you still don't get the point that, I've had them and I can distinguish between both situations as so what i am loads of time trying to say is this:

Geonewt´s animals look very young to me, recent morphs,

To me they don't. recent morphs do in fact have wet looking skin. Recent morphs treated inadequately will keep looking wet for weeks or months till they finally pass out.
But I would not find that a problem since if what Chris says is accomplished they will recover and soon be some wonderful looking specimens. If you excuse me chris I would add that the vivaria shouldn't be that big otherwise prey item get a little dispersed. But what failed to me was exactly that. To be able to keep my animals in those conditions by that time when i got them. Also in the end of the summer temps don't give a good help.

Jorge

 

[Azhael]

Ah, i see. They really looked very young to me, to the point of interpreting the spots in the back of the head as gill buds (it really tricks the eye). In that case, if they have been morphed for a while, you would in principle expect a more dull, very non-shiny skin (it may depend on how they were being raised by the breeder). As you say, it could be the pictures, the first one, the one in your hand looks perfectly alright to me. If you can get those new photos, it would help.
Keep control over humidity, it´s a key element in all skin conditions, but hopefully they are alright.

And not to continue the dispute, but i don´t think recent morphs have wet looking skins...on the contrary their skin seems to dry out awkwardly as it becomes more impermeable. It looks shiny, but definitely not wet. A wet skin does not repel water (evidently), but a recent morph´s skin does... It looks nothing like an animal with wet skin, it looks remarkably like "the shine"...
But whatever, who cares, what do i know...